Discussion:
Water heater 'de-winterizing'
(too old to reply)
Lee K
2005-05-24 02:20:58 UTC
Permalink
A friend of mine bought an RV last fall that was already winterized. The
previous owner, rather than using a bypass on the water heater, filled it
with anti-freeze. Any idea how long it takes to purge the water heater of
that stuff? He's filled the fresh water tank twice and run it through the
hot water tap and the water still runs slightly pink in the sink. Tried
draining the tank via the petcock on the side of the hot water tank but the
water only seems to dribble out, even with the faucet open.
William Boyd
2005-05-24 03:18:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee K
A friend of mine bought an RV last fall that was already winterized. The
previous owner, rather than using a bypass on the water heater, filled it
with anti-freeze. Any idea how long it takes to purge the water heater of
that stuff? He's filled the fresh water tank twice and run it through the
hot water tap and the water still runs slightly pink in the sink. Tried
draining the tank via the petcock on the side of the hot water tank but the
water only seems to dribble out, even with the faucet open.
Pull the entire drain plug, that includes the fitting that the
petcock is screwed in to. Take a water hose and squirt water in the
drain hole, holding the hose at the opening with some force. Then
stand aside and let the tank blow the water out. do this a few times
and it will clean the sediments out as well, as the antifreeze.
--
BILL P.

2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram,
SLT, SWB, 2WD,
5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans,
Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner,
Husky 16K. Voyager Controller
2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi.
Dual EU2000i Hondas
Just Me and Dog
RichA
2005-05-24 03:23:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee K
A friend of mine bought an RV last fall that was already winterized. The
previous owner, rather than using a bypass on the water heater, filled it
with anti-freeze. Any idea how long it takes to purge the water heater of
that stuff? He's filled the fresh water tank twice and run it through the
hot water tap and the water still runs slightly pink in the sink. Tried
draining the tank via the petcock on the side of the hot water tank but the
water only seems to dribble out, even with the faucet open.
To get water to come out of the petcock you need to open the pressure
relief valve above it near the top of the tank. You can drain it
better if you take the plug out that the petcock screws into, or if
it's a one piece just unscrew the petcock out of tank.

Take care and Happy Campin...
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
Gil J
2005-05-24 03:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee K
A friend of mine bought an RV last fall that was already winterized. The
previous owner, rather than using a bypass on the water heater, filled it
with anti-freeze. Any idea how long it takes to purge the water heater of
that stuff? He's filled the fresh water tank twice and run it through the
hot water tap and the water still runs slightly pink in the sink. Tried
draining the tank via the petcock on the side of the hot water tank but the
water only seems to dribble out, even with the faucet open.
If your rv has a connection to hook a hose up to fresh water when
at a campsite that bypasses the fresh water holding tank, you can flush
the waterheater and all the lines except the fresh water tank.
On my rv i drain the tank and flush it and then move the hose onto
the bypass connection and open the heater drain and let the water run
under pressure, then close the drain and flush the rest the lines to the
sink
and bathroom. I do drain the heater and use a bypass at the heater to cut
down on using so much antifreeze.
Gil in Ky.
Dan Listermann
2005-05-24 12:42:17 UTC
Permalink
How does the, for want of a better term, "the compressed air" method of
winterizing work. Can I eliminate the need for anti-freeze and the water
heater by-pass valve? We expect to use the camper into the early winter and
winterizing it with anti-freeze every time we use it sounds like a pain. I
have a plenty of compressed air on tap.

Dan
Post by Gil J
Post by Lee K
A friend of mine bought an RV last fall that was already winterized. The
previous owner, rather than using a bypass on the water heater, filled it
with anti-freeze. Any idea how long it takes to purge the water heater of
that stuff? He's filled the fresh water tank twice and run it through the
hot water tap and the water still runs slightly pink in the sink. Tried
draining the tank via the petcock on the side of the hot water tank but
the water only seems to dribble out, even with the faucet open.
If your rv has a connection to hook a hose up to fresh water when
at a campsite that bypasses the fresh water holding tank, you can flush
the waterheater and all the lines except the fresh water tank.
On my rv i drain the tank and flush it and then move the hose onto
the bypass connection and open the heater drain and let the water run
under pressure, then close the drain and flush the rest the lines to the
sink
and bathroom. I do drain the heater and use a bypass at the heater to cut
down on using so much antifreeze.
Gil in Ky.
Gil J
2005-05-24 13:36:49 UTC
Permalink
I know people who have been sucessful with the compressed air method
but i am afraid that there will be pockets of water left in the lines.
Gil
Post by Dan Listermann
How does the, for want of a better term, "the compressed air" method of
winterizing work. Can I eliminate the need for anti-freeze and the water
heater by-pass valve? We expect to use the camper into the early winter
and winterizing it with anti-freeze every time we use it sounds like a
pain. I have a plenty of compressed air on tap.
Dan
Will Sill
2005-05-24 19:50:05 UTC
Permalink
I see where "Dan Listermann" <***@listermann.com> got quoted and
thereby escaped my filter with this question indicating he jhas done
Post by Dan Listermann
How does the, for want of a better term, "the compressed air" method of
winterizing work. Can I eliminate the need for anti-freeze and the water
heater by-pass valve? We expect to use the camper into the early winter
and winterizing it with anti-freeze every time we use it sounds like a
pain. I have a plenty of compressed air on tap.
the right answer, posted repeatedly, is. . . .

DRAIN water tank & water heater

BYBASS water heater

CONNECT pump inlet via hose to jug of pink stuff (use tee/valve)

PUMP AF into pipes 'til it comes outa faucets (and shower, toilet)

DUMP holding tanks

For more detailed, illustrated winterizing information see
Les Doll's Painless Winterizing, at The RVer's Corner,
<http://www.rverscorner.com/articles/painless.html>.

In very mild climates you can get away without winterizing at all.
Some get by using compressed air, a few by just draining. But
if you want to be fairly sure of NEVER having to fix split plumbing
parts, the above system is as easy and foolproof as we know about, and
takes only a few minutes.

NOTE: When "un-winterizing", flush the pipes with water BEFORE
placing WH bypass valves back to normal.

Will Sill
The list of subjects I care about is shrinking steadily.
Items missing from that list include but are not limited to:
- The views of moronic and anti-American nut cases
- Terminally boring and/or thoughtless commentaries.
Cliff
2005-05-24 20:54:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Sill
the right answer, posted repeatedly, is. . . .
DRAIN water tank & water heater
BYBASS water heater
CONNECT pump inlet via hose to jug of pink stuff (use tee/valve)
PUMP AF into pipes 'til it comes outa faucets (and shower, toilet)
DUMP holding tanks
For more detailed, illustrated winterizing information see
Les Doll's Painless Winterizing, at The RVer's Corner,
<http://www.rverscorner.com/articles/painless.html>.
Or, do like the Bride and I do ... go somewhere warm !!! LOL

Cliff, in Florida where it's getting a little TOO warm.
--
Our Web Page http://www.cj-and-m.com
.
.
For you and me, today is all we have; tomorrow is a mirage that may
never become a reality. Louis L'Amour (1908 - 1988)
Dan Listermann
2005-05-25 12:49:32 UTC
Permalink
Our RV is 21 years old and has no "low point drains" AFAIK. It does not
have a water heater by-pass or a "pump inlet valve" either. I am going to
install an accumulator soon so I will spend a bit of time looking at the
plumbing to get an idea of what might be involved is setting these things
up. I already know that getting to the water heater inlet is going to be a
problem.

We found our little Toyota is so comfortable that we might want to use it
almost all year round. What considerations should we have for the black
water tank ( we have no gray ) at lower temperatures? I see that heaters
are available. Will a shot of antifreeze do for the twenties?

Going to DC and VA Beach this weekend!

Thanks for the help!

Dan
Post by Will Sill
thereby escaped my filter with this question indicating he jhas done
Post by Dan Listermann
How does the, for want of a better term, "the compressed air" method of
winterizing work. Can I eliminate the need for anti-freeze and the water
heater by-pass valve? We expect to use the camper into the early winter
and winterizing it with anti-freeze every time we use it sounds like a
pain. I have a plenty of compressed air on tap.
the right answer, posted repeatedly, is. . . .
DRAIN water tank & water heater
BYBASS water heater
CONNECT pump inlet via hose to jug of pink stuff (use tee/valve)
PUMP AF into pipes 'til it comes outa faucets (and shower, toilet)
DUMP holding tanks
For more detailed, illustrated winterizing information see
Les Doll's Painless Winterizing, at The RVer's Corner,
<http://www.rverscorner.com/articles/painless.html>.
In very mild climates you can get away without winterizing at all.
Some get by using compressed air, a few by just draining. But
if you want to be fairly sure of NEVER having to fix split plumbing
parts, the above system is as easy and foolproof as we know about, and
takes only a few minutes.
NOTE: When "un-winterizing", flush the pipes with water BEFORE
placing WH bypass valves back to normal.
Will Sill
The list of subjects I care about is shrinking steadily.
- The views of moronic and anti-American nut cases
- Terminally boring and/or thoughtless commentaries.
Neon John
2005-05-27 03:13:36 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 25 May 2005 08:49:32 -0400, "Dan Listermann"
Post by Dan Listermann
Our RV is 21 years old and has no "low point drains" AFAIK. It does not
have a water heater by-pass or a "pump inlet valve" either. I am going to
install an accumulator soon so I will spend a bit of time looking at the
plumbing to get an idea of what might be involved is setting these things
up. I already know that getting to the water heater inlet is going to be a
problem.
Have you followed your plumbing all the way? Reason I ask is that
these low point drains tend to be hidden. One of mine is way in the
back of a cabinet. My rig is an 82 model.

Adding one is trivially easy. Snip the pipe and tie the valve in.
Drill a hole in the floor to let the discharge pipe exit.
Post by Dan Listermann
We found our little Toyota is so comfortable that we might want to use it
almost all year round. What considerations should we have for the black
water tank ( we have no gray ) at lower temperatures? I see that heaters
are available. Will a shot of antifreeze do for the twenties?
I use mine year-round. I've written extensively on my winter
techniques so you might want to google. Look for
***@bellsouth.net.

Executive summary: 1 gallon of pink antifreeze in the empty
black/gray water tank to protect the dump valve and discharge
plumbing. A recirc line from the hot water to the fresh water tank so
that the water heater can be used to keep the fresh water above
freezing. Make sure none of the water lines touch the metal chassis.
It's OK for the black water tank to freeze. Thaw it before dumping by
running a water heater tank full of water in.

When I park my rig without heat I a) drain the low point drains, b)
drain the water heater and c) blow the lines with air. No pink stuff
in the fresh water. I want to be able to re-water the thing and go
and not spend hours getting the pink crap out of my lines.

That gadget they sell at the RV store, a hose fitting with a shraeder
valve for air won't do the job. Not enough volume.

I made a blowing unit from a high volume pressure regulator and a
garden hose fitting. It will supply 40-50 lbs of air pressure with
all the volume the system will accept. I connect the air hose, then
open each faucet in turn until all the water is blown out and it no
longer gurgles. IT only takes a few seconds. If the faucet has an
aerator, unscrew that to increase the flow.

I have a large shop air compressor but I've also blown my system with
a 2 hp portable. As long as it has an air tank to store volume it'll
work.

John
---
John De Armond
***@johngsbbq.com
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
William Boyd
2005-05-27 03:25:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neon John
On Wed, 25 May 2005 08:49:32 -0400, "Dan Listermann"
Post by Dan Listermann
Our RV is 21 years old and has no "low point drains" AFAIK. It does not
have a water heater by-pass or a "pump inlet valve" either. I am going to
install an accumulator soon so I will spend a bit of time looking at the
plumbing to get an idea of what might be involved is setting these things
up. I already know that getting to the water heater inlet is going to be a
problem.
Have you followed your plumbing all the way? Reason I ask is that
these low point drains tend to be hidden. One of mine is way in the
back of a cabinet. My rig is an 82 model.
Adding one is trivially easy. Snip the pipe and tie the valve in.
Drill a hole in the floor to let the discharge pipe exit.
Post by Dan Listermann
We found our little Toyota is so comfortable that we might want to use it
almost all year round. What considerations should we have for the black
water tank ( we have no gray ) at lower temperatures? I see that heaters
are available. Will a shot of antifreeze do for the twenties?
I use mine year-round. I've written extensively on my winter
techniques so you might want to google. Look for
Executive summary: 1 gallon of pink antifreeze in the empty
black/gray water tank to protect the dump valve and discharge
plumbing. A recirc line from the hot water to the fresh water tank so
that the water heater can be used to keep the fresh water above
freezing. Make sure none of the water lines touch the metal chassis.
It's OK for the black water tank to freeze. Thaw it before dumping by
running a water heater tank full of water in.
When I park my rig without heat I a) drain the low point drains, b)
drain the water heater and c) blow the lines with air. No pink stuff
in the fresh water. I want to be able to re-water the thing and go
and not spend hours getting the pink crap out of my lines.
That gadget they sell at the RV store, a hose fitting with a shraeder
valve for air won't do the job. Not enough volume.
I made a blowing unit from a high volume pressure regulator and a
garden hose fitting. It will supply 40-50 lbs of air pressure with
all the volume the system will accept. I connect the air hose, then
open each faucet in turn until all the water is blown out and it no
longer gurgles. IT only takes a few seconds. If the faucet has an
aerator, unscrew that to increase the flow.
I have a large shop air compressor but I've also blown my system with
a 2 hp portable. As long as it has an air tank to store volume it'll
work.
John
---
John De Armond
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
That is precisely the way I do it, let the water system charge with
air at a regulates rate of 50 or 55 psi. and systematically open one
valve at a time. I do add the pink stuff if I do not intend on using
the rig for a while. But I always put a little in the "P" traps and
open tank drain valves.
--
BILL P.

2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram,
SLT, SWB, 2WD,
5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans,
Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner,
Husky 16K. Voyager Controller
2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi.
Dual EU2000i Hondas
Just Me and Dog
Steve Wolf
2005-05-27 11:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neon John
Post by Dan Listermann
almost all year round. What considerations should we have for the black
water tank ( we have no gray ) at lower temperatures? I see that heaters
are available. Will a shot of antifreeze do for the twenties?
My cold weather stuff is at www.wolfswords.com under the motorhome link.
Post by Neon John
I made a blowing unit from a high volume pressure regulator and a
garden hose fitting. It will supply 40-50 lbs of air pressure with
all the volume the system will accept. I connect the air hose, then
open each faucet in turn until all the water is blown out and it no
longer gurgles. IT only takes a few seconds. If the faucet has an
aerator, unscrew that to increase the flow.
John ... We need pictures of this device.

I agree with John. Pink stuff is a pain in the butt if you regularly winter
camp. HOWEVER, Winnebago did put a valve on either side of my
pump/accumulator. On the intake side I can switch from taking liquid from
the water tank to taking liquid through a hose. On the outlet side I can
either push water into the motorhome system or I can vent it overboard. I
put the intake hose in a bottle of antifreeze, turn the pump on, and vent
the result overboard. Only my pump and accumulator gets antifreeze. I can
clear the antifreeze with fresh water in an instant.

I am considering putting a bypass valve in the toilet line. That's the only
valve I really worry about. In many years of motorhoming I've not seen one
bust but the potential is there. I don't care about pink in the toilet.
That's where it belongs!

Steve
Jon Porter
2005-05-27 15:44:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neon John
When I park my rig without heat I a) drain the low point drains, b)
drain the water heater and c) blow the lines with air. No pink stuff
in the fresh water. I want to be able to re-water the thing and go
and not spend hours getting the pink crap out of my lines.
It doesn't take hours to flush out the lines in my Class B. Running the
faucets until what comes out is no longer pink is quite sufficient. No odor,
no taste left over.
--
Jon
JPinOH
William Boyd
2005-05-24 13:43:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Listermann
How does the, for want of a better term, "the compressed air" method of
winterizing work. Can I eliminate the need for anti-freeze and the water
heater by-pass valve? We expect to use the camper into the early winter and
winterizing it with anti-freeze every time we use it sounds like a pain. I
have a plenty of compressed air on tap.
Dan
Dan, most RV rigs built in later years have what is called "Low
Point Drains". These are valves on the hot, cold and fresh water
systems that tend to allow all the water to drain out. However you
must open all the faucets to allow this to occur. They make an
adapter to screw on the domestic water connection that has an air
valve stem allowing you to apply air to the system helping to expel
the water. Using this method you should remember the hot water tank
drain valve must be opened as well.
I have an air compressor with a paint spray connection allowing the
air pressure to be regulated at a constant amount preventing to much
pressure to build up in the water system when connected. I also do
not use the valve stem, but a quick disconnect connector like on an
air tool. This allows me to pressurize the water system, except the
fresh water tank, of course. Then I can open individual drain valves
or faucets forcing the water out more readily.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
Lon VanOstran
2005-05-25 01:03:42 UTC
Permalink
Dan, most RV rigs built in later years have what is called "Low Point
Drains". These are valves on the hot, cold and fresh water systems that
tend to allow all the water to drain out. However you must open all the
faucets to allow this to occur. They make an adapter to screw on the
domestic water connection that has an air valve stem allowing you to
apply air to the system helping to expel the water. Using this method
you should remember the hot water tank drain valve must be opened as well.
I have an air compressor with a paint spray connection allowing the air
pressure to be regulated at a constant amount preventing to much
pressure to build up in the water system when connected. I also do not
use the valve stem, but a quick disconnect connector like on an air
tool. This allows me to pressurize the water system, except the fresh
water tank, of course. Then I can open individual drain valves or
faucets forcing the water out more readily.
Winnebago and most other manufacturers put in "low point
drains", but they also put in the leg for using the pump to draw the
"pink stuff" into the lines. Read the owner's manual and they tell you
to use anti freeze in the lines to prevent broken fittings.

There are posters here who get lucky, live in the right place, and get
away with blowing out their lines. Advising someone else to do it is
foolish. Doing it is foolish.

Folks, use RV anti freeze in your
lines. RV water systems sag in various places and trapped water will
expand and break stuff. Don't gamble over $3 worth of the Pink stuff.

Read your owner's manual and ignore those who take stupid risks.

Lon
William Boyd
2005-05-25 02:32:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Dan, most RV rigs built in later years have what is called "Low Point
Drains". These are valves on the hot, cold and fresh water systems
that tend to allow all the water to drain out. However you must open
all the faucets to allow this to occur. They make an adapter to screw
on the domestic water connection that has an air valve stem allowing
you to apply air to the system helping to expel the water. Using this
method you should remember the hot water tank drain valve must be
opened as well.
I have an air compressor with a paint spray connection allowing the
air pressure to be regulated at a constant amount preventing to much
pressure to build up in the water system when connected. I also do not
use the valve stem, but a quick disconnect connector like on an air
tool. This allows me to pressurize the water system, except the fresh
water tank, of course. Then I can open individual drain valves or
faucets forcing the water out more readily.
Winnebago and most other manufacturers put in "low point
drains", but they also put in the leg for using the pump to draw the
"pink stuff" into the lines. Read the owner's manual and they tell you
to use anti freeze in the lines to prevent broken fittings.
There are posters here who get lucky, live in the right place, and get
away with blowing out their lines. Advising someone else to do it is
foolish. Doing it is foolish.
Folks, use RV anti freeze in your
lines. RV water systems sag in various places and trapped water will
expand and break stuff. Don't gamble over $3 worth of the Pink stuff.
Read your owner's manual and ignore those who take stupid risks.
Lon
I am beginning to think you don't know your ass from a hole in the
ground. How long do you think the pink stuff has been around and
then consider how long we have been blowing the water out of the
lines to keep them from freezing, that was the original method of
winterizing. Then came along the low point drains and heated pipe
routs, then johnny come lately (the pink stuff) some people used
alcohol after draining and blowing the lines out, but could not use
the water system for drinking until half the summer was over. You
see DUDE, I lived full time in travel trailers when I was from very
young to teen years. You have not been around the circuit that long.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
RichA
2005-05-25 02:50:55 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 24 May 2005 21:32:17 -0500, William Boyd
Post by William Boyd
Post by Lon VanOstran
Dan, most RV rigs built in later years have what is called "Low Point
Drains". These are valves on the hot, cold and fresh water systems
that tend to allow all the water to drain out. However you must open
all the faucets to allow this to occur. They make an adapter to screw
on the domestic water connection that has an air valve stem allowing
you to apply air to the system helping to expel the water. Using this
method you should remember the hot water tank drain valve must be
opened as well.
I have an air compressor with a paint spray connection allowing the
air pressure to be regulated at a constant amount preventing to much
pressure to build up in the water system when connected. I also do not
use the valve stem, but a quick disconnect connector like on an air
tool. This allows me to pressurize the water system, except the fresh
water tank, of course. Then I can open individual drain valves or
faucets forcing the water out more readily.
Winnebago and most other manufacturers put in "low point
drains", but they also put in the leg for using the pump to draw the
"pink stuff" into the lines. Read the owner's manual and they tell you
to use anti freeze in the lines to prevent broken fittings.
There are posters here who get lucky, live in the right place, and get
away with blowing out their lines. Advising someone else to do it is
foolish. Doing it is foolish.
Folks, use RV anti freeze in your
lines. RV water systems sag in various places and trapped water will
expand and break stuff. Don't gamble over $3 worth of the Pink stuff.
Read your owner's manual and ignore those who take stupid risks.
Lon
I am beginning to think you don't know your ass from a hole in the
ground. How long do you think the pink stuff has been around and
then consider how long we have been blowing the water out of the
lines to keep them from freezing, that was the original method of
winterizing. Then came along the low point drains and heated pipe
routs, then johnny come lately (the pink stuff) some people used
alcohol after draining and blowing the lines out, but could not use
the water system for drinking until half the summer was over. You
see DUDE, I lived full time in travel trailers when I was from very
young to teen years. You have not been around the circuit that long.
William,
You are still not thinking very well...


RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
William Boyd
2005-05-25 03:11:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
On Tue, 24 May 2005 21:32:17 -0500, William Boyd
Post by William Boyd
Post by Lon VanOstran
Dan, most RV rigs built in later years have what is called "Low Point
Drains". These are valves on the hot, cold and fresh water systems
that tend to allow all the water to drain out. However you must open
all the faucets to allow this to occur. They make an adapter to screw
on the domestic water connection that has an air valve stem allowing
you to apply air to the system helping to expel the water. Using this
method you should remember the hot water tank drain valve must be
opened as well.
I have an air compressor with a paint spray connection allowing the
air pressure to be regulated at a constant amount preventing to much
pressure to build up in the water system when connected. I also do not
use the valve stem, but a quick disconnect connector like on an air
tool. This allows me to pressurize the water system, except the fresh
water tank, of course. Then I can open individual drain valves or
faucets forcing the water out more readily.
Winnebago and most other manufacturers put in "low point
drains", but they also put in the leg for using the pump to draw the
"pink stuff" into the lines. Read the owner's manual and they tell you
to use anti freeze in the lines to prevent broken fittings.
There are posters here who get lucky, live in the right place, and get
away with blowing out their lines. Advising someone else to do it is
foolish. Doing it is foolish.
Folks, use RV anti freeze in your
lines. RV water systems sag in various places and trapped water will
expand and break stuff. Don't gamble over $3 worth of the Pink stuff.
Read your owner's manual and ignore those who take stupid risks.
Lon
I am beginning to think you don't know your ass from a hole in the
ground. How long do you think the pink stuff has been around and
then consider how long we have been blowing the water out of the
lines to keep them from freezing, that was the original method of
winterizing. Then came along the low point drains and heated pipe
routs, then johnny come lately (the pink stuff) some people used
alcohol after draining and blowing the lines out, but could not use
the water system for drinking until half the summer was over. You
see DUDE, I lived full time in travel trailers when I was from very
young to teen years. You have not been around the circuit that long.
William,
You are still not thinking very well...
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
And how is that, I think quite well for having experience in travel
trailers that go back to coal oil heaters and cook stoves and water
pumps that was part of the faucet, pumped by hand. Back before the
DC systems existed, lights by lanterns. All travel trailer parks had
showers and public bath rooms, no trailer had such convinces.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
Lon VanOstran
2005-05-25 11:28:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Boyd
And how is that, I think quite well for having experience in travel
trailers that go back to coal oil heaters and cook stoves and water
pumps that was part of the faucet, pumped by hand. Back before the DC
systems existed, lights by lanterns. All travel trailer parks had
showers and public bath rooms, no trailer had such convinces.
Folks, this flaming idiot lives in the south. IMHO, that has saved him
from learning anything about cold weather and RVs. Of course, judging
from his posting history, he wouldn't have learned it anyway.

Lon
William Boyd
2005-05-25 13:52:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by William Boyd
And how is that, I think quite well for having experience in travel
trailers that go back to coal oil heaters and cook stoves and water
pumps that was part of the faucet, pumped by hand. Back before the DC
systems existed, lights by lanterns. All travel trailer parks had
showers and public bath rooms, no trailer had such convinces.
Folks, this flaming idiot lives in the south. IMHO, that has saved him
from learning anything about cold weather and RVs. Of course, judging
from his posting history, he wouldn't have learned it anyway.
Lon
Just for your information, you are correct, I currently live in the
south. As for experience in northern winter hostiles I lived in
Newfound, in a TT for three years, and one year in a drafty
apartment, gaining a fair amount of winter cold problems. Lived in
Collinsville IL. for a year or two in a TT.
You and Will seem to have an objection to some one that has a vast
amount more experience than you do. Swallow hard, you can still get
over it.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
Lon VanOstran
2005-05-25 23:10:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Boyd
Just for your information, you are correct, I currently live in the
south. As for experience in northern winter hostiles I lived in
Newfound, in a TT for three years, and one year in a drafty apartment,
gaining a fair amount of winter cold problems. Lived in Collinsville IL.
for a year or two in a TT.
You and Will seem to have an objection to some one that has a vast
amount more experience than you do. Swallow hard, you can still get over
it.
I advised people to read their owner's manual and use the pink stuff
like it says in the manual. Present a single owner's manual which
suggest blowing out the lines and not using the pink stuff, and I'll
give you a public apology.

It won't happen, because you are a flaming idiot who is advising AGAINST
the system recommended by the manufacturers.

Lon, who should know better than to argue with an idiot.
Ken Bosch
2005-05-31 16:00:29 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 25 May 2005 19:10:09 -0400, Lon VanOstran
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by William Boyd
Just for your information, you are correct, I currently live in the
south. As for experience in northern winter hostiles I lived in
Newfound, in a TT for three years, and one year in a drafty apartment,
gaining a fair amount of winter cold problems. Lived in Collinsville IL.
for a year or two in a TT.
You and Will seem to have an objection to some one that has a vast
amount more experience than you do. Swallow hard, you can still get over
it.
I advised people to read their owner's manual and use the pink stuff
like it says in the manual. Present a single owner's manual which
suggest blowing out the lines and not using the pink stuff, and I'll
give you a public apology.
http://keystone-goshen.com/pdf/plumbing.pdf

Turn to page 6-8

First choice is the dry compressed air method.
Post by Lon VanOstran
It won't happen, because you are a flaming idiot who is advising AGAINST
the system recommended by the manufacturers.
Lon, who should know better than to argue with an idiot.
Who's that in the mirror?

Ken B.
Southern California's Four Seasons:
Earthquake, Mudslide, Brushfire, and Riot
HD in NY
2005-05-31 17:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Ken Bosch wrote:
snipped
Post by Ken Bosch
Who's that in the mirror?
Ken B.
Ken, I looked at your link and don't see it as recommending
either one first. Matter of fact, the antifreeze method
appears to get the nod over the air method. Reason I note
that is the reference to tools required for air method and
none required for the antifreeze method. I didn't see the
reference material making one a choice over the other.
HD in NY
Lon VanOstran
2005-05-31 23:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by HD in NY
snipped
Post by Ken Bosch
Who's that in the mirror?
Ken B.
Ken, I looked at your link and don't see it as recommending either one
first. Matter of fact, the antifreeze method appears to get the nod over
the air method. Reason I note that is the reference to tools required
for air method and none required for the antifreeze method. I didn't see
the reference material making one a choice over the other.
HD in NY
In fairness to Ken, my promise didn't require that the method be the
primary choice, or even reasonable advice.

Lon
Ken Bosch
2005-06-01 19:59:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by HD in NY
snipped
Post by Ken Bosch
Who's that in the mirror?
Ken B.
Ken, I looked at your link and don't see it as recommending
either one first. Matter of fact, the antifreeze method
appears to get the nod over the air method. Reason I note
that is the reference to tools required for air method and
none required for the antifreeze method. I didn't see the
reference material making one a choice over the other.
HD in NY
We see what we want to see, and we interpret things the way we want.

I see;

Option number "one" Compressed Air (dry) Method

Option number "two" RV Anti-Freeze (wet) Method

Maybe I'm reading this too literally, but if anti-freeze was the
preferred method, why is it not listed as option #1?

Ken in SoCal

Southern California's Four Seasons:
Earthquake, Mudslide, Brushfire, and Riot
Will Sill
2005-06-01 21:12:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Bosch
We see what we want to see, and we interpret things the way we want.
I see;
Option number "one" Compressed Air (dry) Method
Option number "two" RV Anti-Freeze (wet) Method
Maybe I'm reading this too literally, but if anti-freeze was the
preferred method, why is it not listed as option #1?
Don't ask for an explanation of illogical stuff printed in some owners
manual. You can take this to the bank:

---------------------

To winterize *most* rigs the right way:

DRAIN water tank & water heater

BYBASS water heater

CONNECT pump inlet via hose to jug of pink stuff (use tee/valve)

PUMP AF into pipes 'til it comes outa faucets (and shower, toilet)

DUMP holding tanks

For more detailed, illustrated winterizing information see
Les Doll's Painless Winterizing, at The RVer's Corner,
<http://www.rverscorner.com/articles/painless.html>.

In very mild climates you can get away without winterizing at all.
Some get by using compressed air, a few by just draining. But
if you want to be fairly sure of NEVER having to fix split plumbing
parts, the above system is as easy and foolproof as we know about.

NOTE: When "un-winterizing", flush the pipes with water BEFORE
placing WH bypass valves back to normal.

-------------------

Now, go out there and do it whatever way you please. Hurry, before it
freezes up.

Will Sill
In the US, anyone can express a point of view.
Sadly, there is no requirement that views be
informed, honest, useful or even logical. If
there was, most Democrats would be silenced.
R.J.(Bob) Evans
2005-06-01 21:22:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Bosch
We see what we want to see, and we interpret things the way we want.
What I see is a bunch of posters with a bunch of opinions and a few
with some real experience. (and the occasional nitwit who just likes
to type)
Post by Ken Bosch
Option number "one" Compressed Air (dry) Method
Option number "two" RV Anti-Freeze (wet) Method
Maybe I'm reading this too literally, but if anti-freeze was the
preferred method, why is it not listed as option #1?
It makes very little difference to me - actually no difference -
which option you choose. Where I live we actually need to winterize.
Some years I do it 3 or 4 times in the course of our travels. We can
easily see -40 before we leave in December and again when we return in
Feb. We use antifreeze because that is the only sure way to guarantee
against problems.

If you prefer though you are welcome to use hot air or fresh water to
winterize your system. It will not affect my life whatsoever.




R.J.(Bob) Evans
(return address needs alteration to work)
Lon VanOstran
2005-06-01 23:25:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Bosch
Post by HD in NY
snipped
Post by Ken Bosch
Who's that in the mirror?
Ken B.
Ken, I looked at your link and don't see it as recommending
either one first. Matter of fact, the antifreeze method
appears to get the nod over the air method. Reason I note
that is the reference to tools required for air method and
none required for the antifreeze method. I didn't see the
reference material making one a choice over the other.
HD in NY
We see what we want to see, and we interpret things the way we want.
I see;
Option number "one" Compressed Air (dry) Method
Option number "two" RV Anti-Freeze (wet) Method
Maybe I'm reading this too literally, but if anti-freeze was the
preferred method, why is it not listed as option #1?
Ken in SoCal
Earthquake, Mudslide, Brushfire, and Riot
Probably because the idiot who wrote the instructions is so stupid that
he doesn't know the proper way to winterize with anti-freeze. I wouldn't
buy any RV from a company which would offer such instructions.

Lon
William Boyd
2005-06-02 02:23:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by Ken Bosch
Post by HD in NY
snipped
Post by Ken Bosch
Who's that in the mirror?
Ken B.
Ken, I looked at your link and don't see it as recommending either
one first. Matter of fact, the antifreeze method appears to get the
nod over the air method. Reason I note that is the reference to tools
required for air method and none required for the antifreeze method.
I didn't see the reference material making one a choice over the other.
HD in NY
We see what we want to see, and we interpret things the way we want.
I see;
Option number "one" Compressed Air (dry) Method
Option number "two" RV Anti-Freeze (wet) Method
Maybe I'm reading this too literally, but if anti-freeze was the
preferred method, why is it not listed as option #1?
Ken in SoCal
Earthquake, Mudslide, Brushfire, and Riot
Probably because the idiot who wrote the instructions is so stupid that
he doesn't know the proper way to winterize with anti-freeze. I wouldn't
buy any RV from a company which would offer such instructions.
Lon
*GAME OVER* and the ignorant one lost and dont know how to *SHUT UP*
about it. Wants to continue to show his *ASS*.
Creditability of which he never had to begin with is sucking more
*HOT AIR*

Give it up *MORON*
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
Lon VanOstran
2005-05-31 23:57:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Bosch
Post by Lon VanOstran
I advised people to read their owner's manual and use the pink stuff
like it says in the manual. Present a single owner's manual which
suggest blowing out the lines and not using the pink stuff, and I'll
give you a public apology.
http://keystone-goshen.com/pdf/plumbing.pdf
Turn to page 6-8
First choice is the dry compressed air method.
1. This is a gross misrepresentation of the information presented,
though they did indeed list compressed air as an acceptable method of
winterizing a Keystone RV.

2. They did not suggest NOT using the pink stuff, as they offer
instructions on that method as well. Neither method was given preference.

3. I owe Bill that apology as promised, and here it is. I'm sorry Bill.
I shouldn't pick on the mentally challenged, especially when one has
stumbled around and found a partner in crime. Oh.......all right. I'm
sorry, Bill. Keystone agrees with you that it's acceptable to winterize
with hot.......er..........compressed air. Damn........I'm trying. <G>

Damn! I hate it when that happens.

4. IMHO, only a fool or a damn fool would take the risk of not using RV
anti freeze in his RV, when you consider how cheap it is and how easy it
is. Wander around in a Keystone product trying to find some quality, and
you might just decide to ignore their advice. They sell a lot of them
because they are cheap.

Not that cheap is all bad when the average RVer only uses his RV less
than 3 weeks per year. Hell, most of them SHOULD buy cheap if they buy
at all.

It should also be noted that the idiots at Keystone also suggest dumping
RV anti freeze into your water tank to fill it above the pump outlet.
This is about as stupid as advice can get. The anti freeze will be
diluted with water, and IMHO, will not be sufficient for use in the
frozen north. Not only that, but getting that taste out of your water in
the spring will take weeks. Have they not heard of a diverter valve?

No wonder they suggest using compressed air.

Lon
William Boyd
2005-06-01 01:06:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by Ken Bosch
Post by Lon VanOstran
I advised people to read their owner's manual and use the pink stuff
like it says in the manual. Present a single owner's manual which
suggest blowing out the lines and not using the pink stuff, and I'll
give you a public apology.
http://keystone-goshen.com/pdf/plumbing.pdf
Turn to page 6-8
First choice is the dry compressed air method.
1. This is a gross misrepresentation of the information presented,
though they did indeed list compressed air as an acceptable method of
winterizing a Keystone RV.
2. They did not suggest NOT using the pink stuff, as they offer
instructions on that method as well. Neither method was given preference.
3. I owe Bill that apology as promised, and here it is. I'm sorry Bill.
I shouldn't pick on the mentally challenged, especially when one has
stumbled around and found a partner in crime. Oh.......all right. I'm
sorry, Bill. Keystone agrees with you that it's acceptable to winterize
with hot.......er..........compressed air. Damn........I'm trying. <G>
Damn! I hate it when that happens.
4. IMHO, only a fool or a damn fool would take the risk of not using RV
anti freeze in his RV, when you consider how cheap it is and how easy it
is. Wander around in a Keystone product trying to find some quality, and
you might just decide to ignore their advice. They sell a lot of them
because they are cheap.
Not that cheap is all bad when the average RVer only uses his RV less
than 3 weeks per year. Hell, most of them SHOULD buy cheap if they buy
at all.
It should also be noted that the idiots at Keystone also suggest dumping
RV anti freeze into your water tank to fill it above the pump outlet.
This is about as stupid as advice can get. The anti freeze will be
diluted with water, and IMHO, will not be sufficient for use in the
frozen north. Not only that, but getting that taste out of your water in
the spring will take weeks. Have they not heard of a diverter valve?
No wonder they suggest using compressed air.
Lon
1.You are grasping for straws! How would the antifreeze be diluted
with water if the tank was drained as is required. Actually only the
30% Propylene Glycol (Pink Stuff) cannot be diluted, taking this
would mean the 50% can be. page #380
http://www.go-rv.com/coast/do/catalog/page?dealerId=7&pageNum=381&productId=27910
2.The name in this catalog is called a siphon kit cast
$13.99(#27910), also the air blow out valve/plug is only $1.69 (#27898)
3.The text for air method indicates it is the "First" method.
4. On the container for the pink stuff is indicated "Keep out of
reach of children" wonder why, if it actually is non-toxic.

GAME OVER, YOU LOSE!
--
BILL P
Lon VanOstran
2005-06-01 01:20:15 UTC
Permalink
1.You are grasping for straws! How would the antifreeze be diluted with
water if the tank was drained as is required.
1. I have yet to see an RV water tank which drained completely.

2. Quality RVs come with a diverter valve so the water pump can suck the
pink stuff out of the jug.

3. You are still a moron.

Lon
William Boyd
2005-06-01 03:26:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by William Boyd
1.You are grasping for straws! How would the antifreeze be diluted
with water if the tank was drained as is required.
1. I have yet to see an RV water tank which drained completely.
2. Quality RVs come with a diverter valve so the water pump can suck the
pink stuff out of the jug.
3. You are still a moron.
Lon
SHIT! MAN you don't even know what it is called let alone know how
to use it.
If you would park the RV on a level spot it might drain for you.
Speaking of *MORONS* the head man at your table is you, you cant
take it when your ignorance is brought to your attention, But then
every one else has already tagged you more than one time.

GAME OVER, YOU LOSE, ASS HOLE!
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
RichA
2005-06-02 06:52:06 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 May 2005 20:06:51 -0500, William Boyd
Post by William Boyd
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by Ken Bosch
Post by Lon VanOstran
I advised people to read their owner's manual and use the pink stuff
like it says in the manual. Present a single owner's manual which
suggest blowing out the lines and not using the pink stuff, and I'll
give you a public apology.
http://keystone-goshen.com/pdf/plumbing.pdf
Turn to page 6-8
First choice is the dry compressed air method.
1. This is a gross misrepresentation of the information presented,
though they did indeed list compressed air as an acceptable method of
winterizing a Keystone RV.
2. They did not suggest NOT using the pink stuff, as they offer
instructions on that method as well. Neither method was given preference.
3. I owe Bill that apology as promised, and here it is. I'm sorry Bill.
I shouldn't pick on the mentally challenged, especially when one has
stumbled around and found a partner in crime. Oh.......all right. I'm
sorry, Bill. Keystone agrees with you that it's acceptable to winterize
with hot.......er..........compressed air. Damn........I'm trying. <G>
Damn! I hate it when that happens.
4. IMHO, only a fool or a damn fool would take the risk of not using RV
anti freeze in his RV, when you consider how cheap it is and how easy it
is. Wander around in a Keystone product trying to find some quality, and
you might just decide to ignore their advice. They sell a lot of them
because they are cheap.
Not that cheap is all bad when the average RVer only uses his RV less
than 3 weeks per year. Hell, most of them SHOULD buy cheap if they buy
at all.
It should also be noted that the idiots at Keystone also suggest dumping
RV anti freeze into your water tank to fill it above the pump outlet.
This is about as stupid as advice can get. The anti freeze will be
diluted with water, and IMHO, will not be sufficient for use in the
frozen north. Not only that, but getting that taste out of your water in
the spring will take weeks. Have they not heard of a diverter valve?
No wonder they suggest using compressed air.
Lon
1.You are grasping for straws! How would the antifreeze be diluted
with water if the tank was drained as is required. Actually only the
30% Propylene Glycol (Pink Stuff) cannot be diluted, taking this
would mean the 50% can be. page #380
http://www.go-rv.com/coast/do/catalog/page?dealerId=7&pageNum=381&productId=27910
2.The name in this catalog is called a siphon kit cast
$13.99(#27910), also the air blow out valve/plug is only $1.69 (#27898)
3.The text for air method indicates it is the "First" method.
4. On the container for the pink stuff is indicated "Keep out of
reach of children" wonder why, if it actually is non-toxic.
GAME OVER, YOU LOSE!
Hi William,
Boy you got your undies in a bunch didn't you. Why are you yelling
and calling people names? You better simmer down or your blood
pressure may top the charts....

Your advise about the -50 degree RV Pink Stuff being able to be
diluted is also full of baloney. You are still not thinking very
well, and now you are guessing on top of it. The Propylene Glycol -50
degrees antifreeze I have says right on the front of the bottle.
"Good to -50 if *UNDILUTED*" If it's diluted who knows what
temperature it will protect to. The stuff isn't made to be diluted
the -30 stuff or the -50 stuff.

You think because some manufacturer mentions blowing lines out with
air as one of the ways to winterize it's the preferred way? Even
Winnebago mentioned blowing lines by air in my last motor home manual,
but they also mentioned using antifreeze and also build in the lines
to do so. If you live in the north what way are you going to
winterize and be sure you are safe, with air or with antifreeze?

Don't be a smuck. Stop arguing that using compressed air is the
correct way to winterize. If you live where it never freezes do what
you want, air, antifreeze or do nothing. If you live where it does
have a chance of freezing use antifreeze. Simple. If you can't agree
with that then you really have a problem.

If you just want to prove that once in awhile you like making
yourself look bad, keep going, your doing a fine job.

Take care and Get out and RV....

RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
William Boyd
2005-06-02 16:00:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
On Tue, 31 May 2005 20:06:51 -0500, William Boyd
Post by William Boyd
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by Ken Bosch
Post by Lon VanOstran
I advised people to read their owner's manual and use the pink stuff
like it says in the manual. Present a single owner's manual which
suggest blowing out the lines and not using the pink stuff, and I'll
give you a public apology.
http://keystone-goshen.com/pdf/plumbing.pdf
Turn to page 6-8
First choice is the dry compressed air method.
1. This is a gross misrepresentation of the information presented,
though they did indeed list compressed air as an acceptable method of
winterizing a Keystone RV.
2. They did not suggest NOT using the pink stuff, as they offer
instructions on that method as well. Neither method was given preference.
3. I owe Bill that apology as promised, and here it is. I'm sorry Bill.
I shouldn't pick on the mentally challenged, especially when one has
stumbled around and found a partner in crime. Oh.......all right. I'm
sorry, Bill. Keystone agrees with you that it's acceptable to winterize
with hot.......er..........compressed air. Damn........I'm trying. <G>
Damn! I hate it when that happens.
4. IMHO, only a fool or a damn fool would take the risk of not using RV
anti freeze in his RV, when you consider how cheap it is and how easy it
is. Wander around in a Keystone product trying to find some quality, and
you might just decide to ignore their advice. They sell a lot of them
because they are cheap.
Not that cheap is all bad when the average RVer only uses his RV less
than 3 weeks per year. Hell, most of them SHOULD buy cheap if they buy
at all.
It should also be noted that the idiots at Keystone also suggest dumping
RV anti freeze into your water tank to fill it above the pump outlet.
This is about as stupid as advice can get. The anti freeze will be
diluted with water, and IMHO, will not be sufficient for use in the
frozen north. Not only that, but getting that taste out of your water in
the spring will take weeks. Have they not heard of a diverter valve?
No wonder they suggest using compressed air.
Lon
1.You are grasping for straws! How would the antifreeze be diluted
with water if the tank was drained as is required. Actually only the
30% Propylene Glycol (Pink Stuff) cannot be diluted, taking this
would mean the 50% can be. page #380
http://www.go-rv.com/coast/do/catalog/page?dealerId=7&pageNum=381&productId=27910
2.The name in this catalog is called a siphon kit cast
$13.99(#27910), also the air blow out valve/plug is only $1.69 (#27898)
3.The text for air method indicates it is the "First" method.
4. On the container for the pink stuff is indicated "Keep out of
reach of children" wonder why, if it actually is non-toxic.
GAME OVER, YOU LOSE!
Hi William,
Boy you got your undies in a bunch didn't you. Why are you yelling
and calling people names? You better simmer down or your blood
pressure may top the charts....
Your advise about the -50 degree RV Pink Stuff being able to be
diluted is also full of baloney. You are still not thinking very
well, and now you are guessing on top of it. The Propylene Glycol -50
degrees antifreeze I have says right on the front of the bottle.
"Good to -50 if *UNDILUTED*" If it's diluted who knows what
temperature it will protect to. The stuff isn't made to be diluted
the -30 stuff or the -50 stuff.
You think because some manufacturer mentions blowing lines out with
air as one of the ways to winterize it's the preferred way? Even
Winnebago mentioned blowing lines by air in my last motor home manual,
but they also mentioned using antifreeze and also build in the lines
to do so. If you live in the north what way are you going to
winterize and be sure you are safe, with air or with antifreeze?
Don't be a smuck. Stop arguing that using compressed air is the
correct way to winterize. If you live where it never freezes do what
you want, air, antifreeze or do nothing. If you live where it does
have a chance of freezing use antifreeze. Simple. If you can't agree
with that then you really have a problem.
If you just want to prove that once in awhile you like making
yourself look bad, keep going, your doing a fine job.
Take care and Get out and RV....
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
HUMMMMM sounds like another one of Lon's lap dogs. The 30% Propylene
Glycol provides a -50 protection and this is acquired by not
diluting it any further. 50% Propylene Glycol is not the standard
pink stuff and I commented that an assumption is that you could
dilute the 50%, I did not indicate any thing about diluting the 30%
product.
You also made my point about freezing protection. If you flush the
30% solution through a water system how do you know that all areas
has been exchanged by the pink stuff and not just diluted some in
some parts. I still say get rid of the water first by blowing it out.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
RichA
2005-06-02 17:56:49 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:00:52 -0500, William Boyd
Post by William Boyd
Post by RichA
On Tue, 31 May 2005 20:06:51 -0500, William Boyd
<snipped>
Post by William Boyd
HUMMMMM sounds like another one of Lon's lap dogs. The 30% Propylene
Glycol provides a -50 protection and this is acquired by not
diluting it any further. 50% Propylene Glycol is not the standard
pink stuff and I commented that an assumption is that you could
dilute the 50%, I did not indicate any thing about diluting the 30%
product.
You also made my point about freezing protection. If you flush the
30% solution through a water system how do you know that all areas
has been exchanged by the pink stuff and not just diluted some in
some parts. I still say get rid of the water first by blowing it out.
Hi William,
Naw, Lon does his thing and I do mine. Just once in awhile someone
comes along who we both agree on, good or bad. You're him, sorry.

Sorry I misunderstood what you posted. But where do you buy 50% RV
Propylene Glycol? Why would you buy it. If you live somewhere where
you need to go to below -50 your RV should be an igloo on a sled, like
I said before. You shouldn't assume, especially on this newsgroup :)

I believe I or someone else has already explained to you how to flush
out a system using antifreeze. But what the heck, maybe it will stick
this time. When you flush (pump) antifreeze or almost any other
liquid through a pipe guess what, if there is water in that pipe it is
going to be *pushed* out in front of the flowing liquid. It may
however mix a little with the leading flow of antifreeze. That's why
you run the faucets until the antifreeze comes out the color it is
inside the bottle so you make sure you get all the water in that pipe
out. If you don't drain the antifreeze it's going to sit there
undiluted throughout the piping. Even if you drain it there is going
to be undiluted antifreeze in any low spots. Could there possibly be
some water that somehow didn't get expelled by the antifreeze? Maybe,
but it's going to be so small an amount it isn't going to matter, it's
going to be diluted with antifreeze anyway, unless you didn't flush
the system right and then it doesn't matter how you do it. The big
point is to get antifreeze into any low spots or spots where water may
sit. You want to push that water out and leave antifreeze in it's
place. Like in the pump for example.

You didn't say get rid of the water first by blowing it out. You
said blow out the lines to winterize. That is a big difference. The
original post was from someone who asked if they winterized by blowing
the lines out do they have to use antifreeze. You said you used air
and described how you did it. Lon came back with his reply about
using air isn't a good idea all over the country. Then the whole
thread took off, you saying that air was the original way etc. etc.
etc. Later you changed your mind and said you blew out the lines then
used antifreeze if you do not intend to use the rig for awhile. But
that was 3 or 4 days later after someone else had told how they used
air to blow out the lines.

You are all over the map on this. All I am saying is you should not
recommend to ALL people to use air to winterize. Especially if they
live in the north. Antifreeze is simpler, easier and just as quick
and more thorough.

Did you and dog get out yet? I'm gettin ready and hope to be gone
for the rest of the summer and fall. So get your jabs in while you
can.
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
William Boyd
2005-06-03 04:46:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:00:52 -0500, William Boyd
Post by William Boyd
Post by RichA
On Tue, 31 May 2005 20:06:51 -0500, William Boyd
<snipped>
Post by William Boyd
HUMMMMM sounds like another one of Lon's lap dogs. The 30% Propylene
Glycol provides a -50 protection and this is acquired by not
diluting it any further. 50% Propylene Glycol is not the standard
pink stuff and I commented that an assumption is that you could
dilute the 50%, I did not indicate any thing about diluting the 30%
product.
You also made my point about freezing protection. If you flush the
30% solution through a water system how do you know that all areas
has been exchanged by the pink stuff and not just diluted some in
some parts. I still say get rid of the water first by blowing it out.
Hi William,
Naw, Lon does his thing and I do mine. Just once in awhile someone
comes along who we both agree on, good or bad. You're him, sorry.
Sorry I misunderstood what you posted. But where do you buy 50% RV
Propylene Glycol? Why would you buy it. If you live somewhere where
you need to go to below -50 your RV should be an igloo on a sled, like
I said before. You shouldn't assume, especially on this newsgroup :)
I believe I or someone else has already explained to you how to flush
out a system using antifreeze. But what the heck, maybe it will stick
this time. When you flush (pump) antifreeze or almost any other
liquid through a pipe guess what, if there is water in that pipe it is
going to be *pushed* out in front of the flowing liquid. It may
however mix a little with the leading flow of antifreeze. That's why
you run the faucets until the antifreeze comes out the color it is
inside the bottle so you make sure you get all the water in that pipe
out. If you don't drain the antifreeze it's going to sit there
undiluted throughout the piping. Even if you drain it there is going
to be undiluted antifreeze in any low spots. Could there possibly be
some water that somehow didn't get expelled by the antifreeze? Maybe,
but it's going to be so small an amount it isn't going to matter, it's
going to be diluted with antifreeze anyway, unless you didn't flush
the system right and then it doesn't matter how you do it. The big
point is to get antifreeze into any low spots or spots where water may
sit. You want to push that water out and leave antifreeze in it's
place. Like in the pump for example.
You didn't say get rid of the water first by blowing it out. You
said blow out the lines to winterize. That is a big difference. The
original post was from someone who asked if they winterized by blowing
the lines out do they have to use antifreeze. You said you used air
and described how you did it. Lon came back with his reply about
using air isn't a good idea all over the country. Then the whole
thread took off, you saying that air was the original way etc. etc.
etc. Later you changed your mind and said you blew out the lines then
used antifreeze if you do not intend to use the rig for awhile. But
that was 3 or 4 days later after someone else had told how they used
air to blow out the lines.
You are all over the map on this. All I am saying is you should not
recommend to ALL people to use air to winterize. Especially if they
live in the north. Antifreeze is simpler, easier and just as quick
and more thorough.
Did you and dog get out yet? I'm gettin ready and hope to be gone
for the rest of the summer and fall. So get your jabs in while you
can.
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
*BULL SHIT* you cant even read. I indicated that the draining water
and blowing out waterlines was the original method and it was. The
fact that doing any method wrong will not get the job done and I
also said that, or words to that effect. The answer to the question
remains the same air only is an acceptable method, but you have to
protect the "P" traps as well by using something that will not
freeze. I would suggest to flush them out with plenty of clean water
and then pour a little scotch in them, get a long straw and do some
personal winterizing. OH! Is that one of the jabs you spoke of.
That was also the method during pre-pink stuff days, but rubbing
alcohol was used and the sink plug inserted.
You guys are really newbies in this stuff, arent you. You act like
there were nothing prior to what you have now. You seem to not have
a clue to what it was just a few years back. I'll also bet you
thought rubber tires was always synthetic, tubeless and radial. You
probably cant remember the term low pressure tires
(670-15/710-15/890-15) and high pressure tires (600-16/650-16,etc.)
Our first tow vehicle following WWII was a 1929 Nash with 21 inch
wood spoke wheels, all natural rubber tires and red rubber inner tubes.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
William Boyd
2005-06-01 01:29:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by William Boyd
Just for your information, you are correct, I currently live in the
south. As for experience in northern winter hostiles I lived in
Newfound, in a TT for three years, and one year in a drafty apartment,
gaining a fair amount of winter cold problems. Lived in Collinsville
IL. for a year or two in a TT.
You and Will seem to have an objection to some one that has a vast
amount more experience than you do. Swallow hard, you can still get
over it.
I advised people to read their owner's manual and use the pink stuff
like it says in the manual. Present a single owner's manual which
suggest blowing out the lines and not using the pink stuff, and I'll
give you a public apology.
It won't happen, because you are a flaming idiot who is advising AGAINST
the system recommended by the manufacturers.
Lon, who should know better than to argue with an idiot.
Actually, Lon, you are a little light on the advice here as well. If
you were to review the Forest River Recreational Vehicle Owner's
Manual, you might be as disgusted with the lack of instructions on
winterization, as I am. It literally provides no adequate method at
all, pink stuff, air or what ever else. I know you should be aware
that this is one of the larger manufacturers of RVs.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
Lon VanOstran
2005-06-01 02:02:26 UTC
Permalink
Actually, Lon, you are a little light on the advice here as well. If you
were to review the Forest River Recreational Vehicle Owner's Manual, you
might be as disgusted with the lack of instructions on winterization, as
I am. It literally provides no adequate method at all, pink stuff, air
or what ever else. I know you should be aware that this is one of the
larger manufacturers of RVs.
Larger than which/what?
For the record, I do not recommend anything by Forest River.

Since when is it my responsibility to keep track of which manufacturers
don't tell people anything about winterizing?

Did your brain ever work?

Lon
William Boyd
2005-06-01 03:18:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by William Boyd
Actually, Lon, you are a little light on the advice here as well. If
you were to review the Forest River Recreational Vehicle Owner's
Manual, you might be as disgusted with the lack of instructions on
winterization, as I am. It literally provides no adequate method at
all, pink stuff, air or what ever else. I know you should be aware
that this is one of the larger manufacturers of RVs.
Larger than which/what?
For the record, I do not recommend anything by Forest River.
Since when is it my responsibility to keep track of which manufacturers
don't tell people anything about winterizing?
Did your brain ever work?
Lon
No you are the one that gave the advice that is not appropriate for
one of the large company's owners manuals.

Lon posted.
"I advised people to read their owner's manual and use the pink
stuff like it says in the manual. Present a single owner's manual
which suggest blowing out the lines and not using the pink stuff,
and I'll give you a public apology."

Their owners manual does not support your pink stuff comments.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
Lon VanOstran
2005-06-01 11:12:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by William Boyd
Actually, Lon, you are a little light on the advice here as well. If
you were to review the Forest River Recreational Vehicle Owner's
Manual, you might be as disgusted with the lack of instructions on
winterization, as I am. It literally provides no adequate method at
all, pink stuff, air or what ever else. I know you should be aware
that this is one of the larger manufacturers of RVs.
Larger than which/what?
For the record, I do not recommend anything by Forest River.
Since when is it my responsibility to keep track of which
manufacturers don't tell people anything about winterizing?
Did your brain ever work?
Lon
No you are the one that gave the advice that is not appropriate for one
of the large company's owners manuals.
Lon posted.
"I advised people to read their owner's manual and use the pink stuff
like it says in the manual. Present a single owner's manual which
suggest blowing out the lines and not using the pink stuff, and I'll
give you a public apology."
Their owners manual does not support your pink stuff comments.
Sure it does. It doesn't approve your "hot air" method.
Are you stupid enough to keep demonstrating your lack of intelligence,
or will you eventually learn to just shut up?

Lon
William Boyd
2005-06-01 12:20:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by William Boyd
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by William Boyd
Actually, Lon, you are a little light on the advice here as well. If
you were to review the Forest River Recreational Vehicle Owner's
Manual, you might be as disgusted with the lack of instructions on
winterization, as I am. It literally provides no adequate method at
all, pink stuff, air or what ever else. I know you should be aware
that this is one of the larger manufacturers of RVs.
Larger than which/what?
For the record, I do not recommend anything by Forest River.
Since when is it my responsibility to keep track of which
manufacturers don't tell people anything about winterizing?
Did your brain ever work?
Lon
No you are the one that gave the advice that is not appropriate for
one of the large company's owners manuals.
Lon posted.
"I advised people to read their owner's manual and use the pink stuff
like it says in the manual. Present a single owner's manual which
suggest blowing out the lines and not using the pink stuff, and I'll
give you a public apology."
Their owners manual does not support your pink stuff comments.
Sure it does. It doesn't approve your "hot air" method.
Are you stupid enough to keep demonstrating your lack of intelligence,
or will you eventually learn to just shut up?
Lon
YOU know little about that subject as well, "Shutting Up". You just
cannot stand the fact that alternate methods of accomplishing the
same thing can exist with just as good of results. Bet you havent
even accepted the automatic transmission yet.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
RichA
2005-05-26 01:54:32 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 24 May 2005 22:11:37 -0500, William Boyd
Post by William Boyd
Post by RichA
On Tue, 24 May 2005 21:32:17 -0500, William Boyd
Post by William Boyd
Post by Lon VanOstran
Dan, most RV rigs built in later years have what is called "Low Point
Drains". These are valves on the hot, cold and fresh water systems
that tend to allow all the water to drain out. However you must open
all the faucets to allow this to occur. They make an adapter to screw
on the domestic water connection that has an air valve stem allowing
you to apply air to the system helping to expel the water. Using this
method you should remember the hot water tank drain valve must be
opened as well.
I have an air compressor with a paint spray connection allowing the
air pressure to be regulated at a constant amount preventing to much
pressure to build up in the water system when connected. I also do not
use the valve stem, but a quick disconnect connector like on an air
tool. This allows me to pressurize the water system, except the fresh
water tank, of course. Then I can open individual drain valves or
faucets forcing the water out more readily.
Winnebago and most other manufacturers put in "low point
drains", but they also put in the leg for using the pump to draw the
"pink stuff" into the lines. Read the owner's manual and they tell you
to use anti freeze in the lines to prevent broken fittings.
There are posters here who get lucky, live in the right place, and get
away with blowing out their lines. Advising someone else to do it is
foolish. Doing it is foolish.
Folks, use RV anti freeze in your
lines. RV water systems sag in various places and trapped water will
expand and break stuff. Don't gamble over $3 worth of the Pink stuff.
Read your owner's manual and ignore those who take stupid risks.
Lon
I am beginning to think you don't know your ass from a hole in the
ground. How long do you think the pink stuff has been around and
then consider how long we have been blowing the water out of the
lines to keep them from freezing, that was the original method of
winterizing. Then came along the low point drains and heated pipe
routs, then johnny come lately (the pink stuff) some people used
alcohol after draining and blowing the lines out, but could not use
the water system for drinking until half the summer was over. You
see DUDE, I lived full time in travel trailers when I was from very
young to teen years. You have not been around the circuit that long.
William,
You are still not thinking very well...
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
And how is that, I think quite well for having experience in travel
trailers that go back to coal oil heaters and cook stoves and water
pumps that was part of the faucet, pumped by hand. Back before the
DC systems existed, lights by lanterns. All travel trailer parks had
showers and public bath rooms, no trailer had such convinces.
Hi William,
I'm glad you asked. The experience of your youth does not
necessarily translate well to what is happening today. Today most
RV's have low point drains, and RV antifreeze has been around a long
time, is readily available and cheap. Most new RV's are even set up
to pump the antifreeze through the system, or can easily be converted
to do so. Though using air to blow out the lines *may* have been the
only way to do it years ago, today using RV antifreeze is the most
generally accepted way to winterize. Especially north of the Mason
Dixon line and for a goodly amount of miles below it as well.

Using air may or may not work now just as it was the case in your
youth, sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't. A lot depended upon
how the lines themselves were run and in what part of the country you
were in. Using RV antifreeze will work 99 percent of the time. The
one percent it won't work is when it's not done properly.

You didn't think about changing times when you posted to Lon about
what you thought of him, you just thought about what you did *back in
the day*... and how dare him post something counter to what you
posted, since you know that's what you *use* to do. Posting stuff
like that to someone who is new to RV'ing *could* lead to problems for
them with busted pipes. Why tell someone that when it's just as easy
to tell them the safest surest way to prevent problems? That was your
not thinking.

Why post about what you used to do years ago when that's not how it
is done today? Sure some people still use just air, but I'll bet most
of them live where they don't get hard continuous freezes. I use air
and antifreeze, but I don't need to blow out the lines, it's just
something I do. To be safe the best practice is to use antifreeze,
even most manufacturers tell you this.

Just a suggestion. Get out of the barn, take Dog and go RV'in around
the country and see what is happening today. Stop in and visit some of
the manufacturers plants and tour the new RV's. Also while you are
out there having a good time, I hope. Learn how to use your computer
to check where posts are coming from before you accuse someone of
posting under a false signature.

Remember what you did 40-50 years ago may not be the *best* way to go
today. Times change, technology changes you either have to keep up or
get out of the way...as they say.

Take care and Happy Campin...


RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
Jim Rusling
2005-05-26 02:40:48 UTC
Permalink
RichA <richatpa*nospam*@epix.net> wrote:

<snip>
Post by RichA
Remember what you did 40-50 years ago may not be the *best* way to go
today. Times change, technology changes you either have to keep up or
get out of the way...as they say.
The size of the RV's also makes a difference. There is a better
chance of blowing the water our of a small 18' trailer than there is
out of a 30' plus RV. In the old days the amount of plumbing was
really minimized.
--
Jim Rusling
Partially Retired
Mustang, OK
http://www.rusling.org
William Boyd
2005-05-26 03:31:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Rusling
<snip>
Post by RichA
Remember what you did 40-50 years ago may not be the *best* way to go
today. Times change, technology changes you either have to keep up or
get out of the way...as they say.
The size of the RV's also makes a difference. There is a better
chance of blowing the water our of a small 18' trailer than there is
out of a 30' plus RV. In the old days the amount of plumbing was
really minimized.
Dont confuse NEW technology with changing technology. The pink stuff
is new technology that does not necessarily replace previous methods
of doing things. The older way to winterize still will work. The
pink stuff is another way, true, faster but does not replace the old
way. An example of changing technology in this line is the change of
antifreeze contents, from alcohol to ethylene glycol to the pink
stuff, propylene glycol, they are replacing each other.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
RichA
2005-05-26 04:33:23 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 25 May 2005 22:31:58 -0500, William Boyd
Post by William Boyd
Post by Jim Rusling
<snip>
Post by RichA
Remember what you did 40-50 years ago may not be the *best* way to go
today. Times change, technology changes you either have to keep up or
get out of the way...as they say.
The size of the RV's also makes a difference. There is a better
chance of blowing the water our of a small 18' trailer than there is
out of a 30' plus RV. In the old days the amount of plumbing was
really minimized.
Dont confuse NEW technology with changing technology. The pink stuff
is new technology that does not necessarily replace previous methods
of doing things. The older way to winterize still will work. The
pink stuff is another way, true, faster but does not replace the old
way. An example of changing technology in this line is the change of
antifreeze contents, from alcohol to ethylene glycol to the pink
stuff, propylene glycol, they are replacing each other.
Using antifreeze isn't new technology. It's been around for years,
you just have been around longer and didn't know about it. Like I
said you and Dog need to get out more.

You just think because you do it one way it's the correct way for
everyone. Sure blowing out the lines will still work, for some in
some locations, but not as well and not with less problems in all
locations as will using antifreeze.

I'm pretty positive I won't have anything left in the lines that
will freeze if I pump antifreeze through them. I know that there is
always some water left when just using air. Enough to cause a
problem? I don't know, I sure don't want to take a chance on busting
a water line and getting water all over when there is an easy cheap
and sure way to prevent it. And I don't need an air compressor to do
it.

Think about this. If you tell someone to use compressed air to
winterize and then their water lines freeze and burst because all the
water wasn't blown out will you repair them or reimburse them for the
damages? Or will you just say, Gee it works down here in Texas, I
don't know why it didn't work in Bangor Maine. Or the classic, you
didn't do it right.

Take care and Happy Campin...
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
William Boyd
2005-05-26 14:38:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
Think about this. If you tell someone to use compressed air to
winterize and then their water lines freeze and burst because all the
water wasn't blown out will you repair them or reimburse them for the
damages? Or will you just say, Gee it works down here in Texas, I
don't know why it didn't work in Bangor Maine. Or the classic, you
didn't do it right.
Take care and Happy Campin...
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
NO! What I will say you did it wrong. No method is without
consequences for doing it wrong. You can fail to drop your shower
hose down to drain it, weather using air or antifreeze. The
advantage of the pink stuff method is you dont have to pour regular
antifreeze in the drain traps as was required before it came along.
Dont think I do not take advantage of new technology, I do and yes I
use the pink stuff exclusively, after blowing out the water with
air. This way I can recover it later and reuse it next year.
But what would you do if you were spending the winter in Arizona and
a unusual weather situation occurred and a freeze warning is issued.
Do you really think they would have enough of the pink stuff
available for all the folks down there. You could do what LZ did,
or you could revert back to the original and still good, but not so
easy, method.
You are one of the people that rely to much on supposedly modernized
existence. When the computer goes down in a bank you cannot get a
dime out of them, we have suficticated our selves in to total
incompetence. Unless you keep up with alternate methods.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
HD in NY
2005-05-27 00:42:53 UTC
Permalink
William Boyd wrote:
snipped
Do you really think they would have enough of the pink stuff available
for all the folks down there. You could do what LZ did,
or you could revert back to the original and still good, but not so
easy, method.
All most folks need is one gallon of pink stuff. Drain the
hwt, hook up the furnished hose, on many newer trailer, turn
what valves are needed to block out the hwt, turn on the
pump, go to each faucet and run till pink stuff comes, flush
toilet till pink stuff comes, open bottom drains till pink
stuff comes and Voila', you is done. If all this takes more
than 15 minutes, you're slow.

I think you're going back to when we had pressurized tanks
instead of pumps. I'm wondering if this isn't where the idea
of blowing out the lines came from. The pink stuff is cheap,
simple to use and *foolproof*. Using air pressure requires a
compressor, not cheap and can result in a frozen line which
will cost many bucks if it bursts. I figure, why take the
chance.

You can keep on doing it your way and the rest of us will do
it the simple, safe way. A gallon of rv pink stuff can
usually be purchased for about $3. I can winterize for 20
years and still not spend what a compressor would cost.
HD in NY
Lon VanOstran
2005-05-27 01:05:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by HD in NY
snipped
Do you really think they would have enough of the pink stuff available
for all the folks down there. You could do what LZ did,
or you could revert back to the original and still good, but not so
easy, method.
All most folks need is one gallon of pink stuff. Drain the hwt, hook up
the furnished hose, on many newer trailer, turn what valves are needed
to block out the hwt, turn on the pump, go to each faucet and run till
pink stuff comes, flush toilet till pink stuff comes, open bottom drains
till pink stuff comes and Voila', you is done. If all this takes more
than 15 minutes, you're slow.
I think you're going back to when we had pressurized tanks instead of
pumps. I'm wondering if this isn't where the idea of blowing out the
lines came from. The pink stuff is cheap, simple to use and *foolproof*.
Using air pressure requires a compressor, not cheap and can result in a
frozen line which will cost many bucks if it bursts. I figure, why take
the chance.
You can keep on doing it your way and the rest of us will do it the
simple, safe way. A gallon of rv pink stuff can usually be purchased for
about $3. I can winterize for 20 years and still not spend what a
compressor would cost.
HD in NY
I can't believe you answered his question as though there are any RVers
wintering in AZ who would be stupid enough to winterize their RV over a
hard freeze warning. Most of us run the heat to keep ourselves from
freezing, and rest comfortably knowing our tanks are heated by that
process.

I understand Boyd brain being that silly. What are you thinking?

Lon
William Boyd
2005-05-27 02:28:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by HD in NY
snipped
Post by William Boyd
Do you really think they would have enough of the pink stuff
available for all the folks down there. You could do what LZ did,
or you could revert back to the original and still good, but not so
easy, method.
All most folks need is one gallon of pink stuff. Drain the hwt, hook
up the furnished hose, on many newer trailer, turn what valves are
needed to block out the hwt, turn on the pump, go to each faucet and
run till pink stuff comes, flush toilet till pink stuff comes, open
bottom drains till pink stuff comes and Voila', you is done. If all
this takes more than 15 minutes, you're slow.
I think you're going back to when we had pressurized tanks instead of
pumps. I'm wondering if this isn't where the idea of blowing out the
lines came from. The pink stuff is cheap, simple to use and
*foolproof*. Using air pressure requires a compressor, not cheap and
can result in a frozen line which will cost many bucks if it bursts. I
figure, why take the chance.
You can keep on doing it your way and the rest of us will do it the
simple, safe way. A gallon of rv pink stuff can usually be purchased
for about $3. I can winterize for 20 years and still not spend what a
compressor would cost.
HD in NY
I can't believe you answered his question as though there are any RVers
wintering in AZ who would be stupid enough to winterize their RV over a
hard freeze warning. Most of us run the heat to keep ourselves from
freezing, and rest comfortably knowing our tanks are heated by that
process.
I understand Boyd brain being that silly. What are you thinking?
Lon
Now we know you are full of shit or have an 18' popup. I have what I
consider one of the smaller RV that I have had in years and it takes
2,5 gal. to accomplish what you just described. Also one line
routing was designed to traverse the non-heated area, the galley. so
I put isolation valves in them and routed them to the low point drains.
In addition I have read posts where some supplement the heating
system with electric or other space heaters. This practice prevents
the furnace from properly heating the below floor level areas where
the pluming is located. My last MH had heater ducts running every
where the pluming went. All the water lines traveled in the furnace
duct work. As long as you maintained heat you did not have to drain
anything.
You are so screwed up you probably even like Guinness Beer, nasty
tasting stuff.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
HD in NY
2005-05-27 02:58:18 UTC
Permalink
William Boyd wrote:
snipped
Post by William Boyd
You are so screwed up you probably even like Guinness Beer, nasty
tasting stuff.
Who in Hell are you "talking to?
HD in NY
William Boyd
2005-05-27 03:08:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by HD in NY
snipped
Post by William Boyd
You are so screwed up you probably even like Guinness Beer, nasty
tasting stuff.
Who in Hell are you "talking to?
HD in NY
What is the matter you have web TV and cant thread to subject?
--
BILL P.

2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram,
SLT, SWB, 2WD,
5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans,
Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner,
Husky 16K. Voyager Controller
2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi.
Dual EU2000i Hondas
Just Me and Dog
HD in NY
2005-05-27 14:59:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Boyd
Post by HD in NY
snipped
Post by William Boyd
You are so screwed up you probably even like Guinness Beer, nasty
tasting stuff.
Who in Hell are you "talking to?
HD in NY
What is the matter you have web TV and cant thread to subject?
Bye Bill, who now is gone.
HD in NY
Dan Listermann
2005-05-27 12:44:45 UTC
Permalink
You are so screwed up you probably even like Guinness Beer, nasty tasting
stuff.
Now I am questioning whether or not to believe anything you say.

Dan
Cliff
2005-05-27 12:50:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Boyd
You are so screwed up you probably even like Guinness Beer, nasty
tasting stuff.
HEY! Watch that crack about my beer ... nasty stuff, indeed.. I may just
have an EXTRA Guinness after reading that!

Cliff, in Florida for a while longer enjoying Guinness
--
Our Web Page http://www.cj-and-m.com
.
.
For you and me, today is all we have; tomorrow is a mirage that may
never become a reality. Louis L'Amour (1908 - 1988)
HD in NY
2005-05-27 02:56:15 UTC
Permalink
Lon VanOstran wrote:
snipped
Post by Lon VanOstran
I can't believe you answered his question as though there are any RVers
wintering in AZ who would be stupid enough to winterize their RV over a
hard freeze warning. Most of us run the heat to keep ourselves from
freezing, and rest comfortably knowing our tanks are heated by that
process.
I understand Boyd brain being that silly. What are you thinking?
Lon
Huh? I thought the general subject was about winterizing?
What do you think it's about? I thought I'd read enough of
the thread to see it go toward the question of which way is
better. I didn't realize you two were carrying on a
conversation about dealing with freeze conditions while
rving. I do the same as you, run the furnace. Nuff said.
HD in NY
Lon VanOstran
2005-05-27 11:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Huh? I thought the general subject was about winterizing? What do you
think it's about? I thought I'd read enough of the thread to see it go
toward the question of which way is better. I didn't realize you two
were carrying on a conversation about dealing with freeze conditions
while rving. I do the same as you, run the furnace. Nuff said.
HD in NY
The post you responded to, by Boyd Brain, said:

"But what would you do if you were spending the winter in Arizona and a
unusual weather situation occurred and a freeze warning is issued."

That statement, on an RV newsgroup, clearly described those STAYING in
their RVs, and NOT those STORING their RVs. In the post to which you
responded, Boyd Brain suggested that there isn't enough of the "pink
stuff" in AZ to cover such a situation. He also suggested that everyone
there would need to fall back upon the "tried and true" method of
blowing out the water lines.

You responded to his post as though he has a serious point. He does, but
it's on top of his head.

How many RVers winterize their RV while they are staying in it in AZ? We
sure didn't. Not for any of the HARD FREEZES we got in January of 2005.

What were you drinking before you responded?

Lon
HD in NY
2005-05-27 15:07:03 UTC
Permalink
Lon VanOstran wrote:
snipped
Post by Lon VanOstran
How many RVers winterize their RV while they are staying in it in AZ? We
sure didn't. Not for any of the HARD FREEZES we got in January of 2005.
What were you drinking before you responded?
Lon
I didn't read his whole post and have dumped him in the
filter. Most of what he rants about is nonsense and that's
how I treated his reasoning. It won't matter now. He's nuts
on all issues pertaining to winterizing. Guess I was guilty
of not reading enough of his post to address the premise he
presented and was responding more to his bullshit attitude.

And I don't drink, period :)
HD in NY
Lon VanOstran
2005-05-27 00:48:10 UTC
Permalink
The advantage of the pink stuff
method is you dont have to pour regular antifreeze in the drain traps as
was required before it came along.
Wrong again, nitwit. The water in the traps will dilute the pink stuff.
Dont think I do not take advantage of new technology, I do and yes I use
the pink stuff exclusively, after blowing out the water with air. This
way I can recover it later and reuse it next year.
Then why the hell have you been advocating the use of your hot air,
INSTEAD of the pink stuff?
But what would you do if you were spending the winter in Arizona and a
unusual weather situation occurred and a freeze warning is issued.
We ran the furnace. What would morons do?
Do you really think they would have enough of the pink stuff available
for all the folks down there. You could do what LZ did,
or you could revert back to the original and still good, but not so
easy, method.
What were you full of before you filled up on shit?
You are one of the people that rely to much on supposedly modernized
existence. When the computer goes down in a bank you cannot get a dime
out of them, we have suficticated our selves in to total incompetence.
Unless you keep up with alternate methods.
Alternative my ass. You were suggesting ONLY hot air blown through the
lines.

The more you post, the more you prove that you just don't know.

Lon
William Boyd
2005-05-27 02:32:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
The advantage of the pink stuff method is you dont have to pour
regular antifreeze in the drain traps as was required before it came
along.
Wrong again, nitwit. The water in the traps will dilute the pink stuff.
Dont think I do not take advantage of new technology, I do and yes I
use the pink stuff exclusively, after blowing out the water with air.
This way I can recover it later and reuse it next year.
Then why the hell have you been advocating the use of your hot air,
INSTEAD of the pink stuff?
But what would you do if you were spending the winter in Arizona and a
unusual weather situation occurred and a freeze warning is issued.
We ran the furnace. What would morons do?
Do you really think they would have enough of the pink stuff available
for all the folks down there. You could do what LZ did,
or you could revert back to the original and still good, but not so
easy, method.
What were you full of before you filled up on shit?
You are one of the people that rely to much on supposedly modernized
existence. When the computer goes down in a bank you cannot get a dime
out of them, we have suficticated our selves in to total incompetence.
Unless you keep up with alternate methods.
Alternative my ass. You were suggesting ONLY hot air blown through the
lines.
The more you post, the more you prove that you just don't know.
Lon
The only one mentioning hot air is you, I never said any thing about
blowing out water lines with hot air, That is your breath you are
feeling.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
c***@sbcglobal.net
2005-05-27 07:34:11 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 26 May 2005 21:32:52 -0500, William Boyd
Post by William Boyd
Post by Lon VanOstran
What were you full of before you filled up on shit?
The only one mentioning hot air is you, I never said any thing about
blowing out water lines with hot air, That is your breath you are
feeling.
No use, Bill, responding to this adult (?) will only get more insult,
less technical discussion, and zero in the way of learning anything
about anything.

Best just throw him a doggie bone and let him get back to his master's
lap.

Canoli
RichA
2005-05-26 03:49:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Rusling
<snip>
Post by RichA
Remember what you did 40-50 years ago may not be the *best* way to go
today. Times change, technology changes you either have to keep up or
get out of the way...as they say.
The size of the RV's also makes a difference. There is a better
chance of blowing the water our of a small 18' trailer than there is
out of a 30' plus RV. In the old days the amount of plumbing was
really minimized.
Hi,
That's for sure our first RV had a water hook up and one mini sink
and nothing else. No tanks, no toilets, no baths, no hot water
heater. The sink water either drained onto the ground or you caught
it in buckets and dumped it. You used the campground facilities for
showers and I remember standing in lines in the morning at some
popular campgrounds. We went modern and got a porta potty, which back
then cost an arm and a leg, otherwise it was a walk in the dark with a
flashlight going to the campground bathroom in the AM. That was
another nightly ritual, get the kids in their PJ's then take them to
the bathroom then back to the RV and to bed.

I use to winterize that one by opening the sink faucet and taking the
cover off the water inlet. That was it. Never did anything else.
Now with the MH, we have lines going back to the rear of the RV for
a cloths washer, small 1/4 inch copper tubing and plastic tubing going
through a micro filter to the ice maker, 3 sinks, a shower and toilet,
not to mention the outside shower and hot water heater and main water
filter. Lots more water lines to worry about for sure.

Take care and Happy Campin...
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
Will Sill
2005-05-26 11:20:42 UTC
Permalink
I see where RichA <richatpa*nospam*@epix.net> tried to hammer some
sense into the perpetually wrong-headed Boyd Brain, but mentioning. .
Post by RichA
That's for sure our first RV had a water hook up and one mini sink
and nothing else. No tanks, no toilets, no baths, no hot water
heater. The sink water either drained onto the ground or you caught
it in buckets and dumped it. You used the campground facilities for
showers and I remember standing in lines in the morning at some
popular campgrounds.
50 years ago, very few campgrounds had showers either!

Will Sill

A key difference between communists and liberals/socialists
is that liberals mistakenly believe their vision(s) of the ideal
society can be achieved without violence and bloodshed. Communists,
therefore, have the advantage of not being so bone stupid.
Dan Listermann
2005-05-26 14:06:31 UTC
Permalink
How does this sound?

1. Blow out what you can.
2. Add anti freeze.
3. Run through fixtures and things leaving a bit in drains.
4. Blow out the anti freeze collecting extra for recycling .

Dan
Post by Will Sill
sense into the perpetually wrong-headed Boyd Brain, but mentioning. .
Post by RichA
That's for sure our first RV had a water hook up and one mini sink
and nothing else. No tanks, no toilets, no baths, no hot water
heater. The sink water either drained onto the ground or you caught
it in buckets and dumped it. You used the campground facilities for
showers and I remember standing in lines in the morning at some
popular campgrounds.
50 years ago, very few campgrounds had showers either!
Will Sill
A key difference between communists and liberals/socialists
is that liberals mistakenly believe their vision(s) of the ideal
society can be achieved without violence and bloodshed. Communists,
therefore, have the advantage of not being so bone stupid.
Lon VanOstran
2005-05-25 11:18:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Boyd
I am beginning to think you don't know your ass from a hole in the
ground.
Good! I've been convinced since your 3rd post here that you are a
flaming idiot who thinks he knows everything, yet knows damn near nothing.

IMHO, there has never been a poster to this newsgroup who is any more
full of shit than you, nor one who gives more stupid and dangerous advice.

You, sir, are dangerous. Those who don't know, and know that they don't
know are ignorant. Those who don't know and don't know that they don't
know are incurably ignorant. You are incurable.

Lon
Will Sill
2005-05-25 13:26:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
IMHO, there has never been a poster to this newsgroup who is any more
full of shit than you, nor one who gives more stupid and dangerous advice.
You, sir, are dangerous. Those who don't know, and know that they don't
know are ignorant. Those who don't know and don't know that they don't
know are incurably ignorant. You are incurable.
The competition for the most mentally constipated poster is fierce,
and IMO a few really stupid posters may have exceeded BB's score on
occasion - but in the long pull I agree he's at least in the top 1%.

I tend to give slack to mere ignorance. After all, not knowing the
right answer is no crime. Stupidity, OTOH, is continuing to bray
like a jackass long after one has been given the right answer,
repeatedly and with plenty of good documentation. And stupidity is
clearly the key disease affecting BB.

I suppose he will again threaten to beat me up for saying this, but I
am more concerned about mosquito bites.

ON TOPIC: A mistake I've made when de-winterizing the WH was
switching the bypass valves back to normal BEFORE flushing the pink
stuff outa the pipes. As a result, you get some of the AF in the WH
tank and it takes a while to flush it all out. You'll still get tiny
traces of the stuff even if you do it right, but the quantity is
insignificant.

Will Sill
The list of subjects I care about is shrinking steadily.
Items missing from that list include but are not limited to:
- The views of moronic and anti-American nut cases
- Terminally boring and/or thoughtless commentaries.
William Boyd
2005-05-25 14:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Sill
Post by Lon VanOstran
IMHO, there has never been a poster to this newsgroup who is any more
full of shit than you, nor one who gives more stupid and dangerous advice.
You, sir, are dangerous. Those who don't know, and know that they don't
know are ignorant. Those who don't know and don't know that they don't
know are incurably ignorant. You are incurable.
The competition for the most mentally constipated poster is fierce,
and IMO a few really stupid posters may have exceeded BB's score on
occasion - but in the long pull I agree he's at least in the top 1%.
I tend to give slack to mere ignorance. After all, not knowing the
right answer is no crime. Stupidity, OTOH, is continuing to bray
like a jackass long after one has been given the right answer,
repeatedly and with plenty of good documentation. And stupidity is
clearly the key disease affecting BB.
I suppose he will again threaten to beat me up for saying this, but I
am more concerned about mosquito bites.
ON TOPIC: A mistake I've made when de-winterizing the WH was
switching the bypass valves back to normal BEFORE flushing the pink
stuff outa the pipes. As a result, you get some of the AF in the WH
tank and it takes a while to flush it all out. You'll still get tiny
traces of the stuff even if you do it right, but the quantity is
insignificant.
Will Sill
The list of subjects I care about is shrinking steadily.
- The views of moronic and anti-American nut cases
- Terminally boring and/or thoughtless commentaries.
Dont flatter your self, your ass never was worth kicking.
Any way some of your mis guiding information wont be of consequences
as the age of the HWH is pre Anode rod era and that is the prime
reason not to let the pink stuff get in the tank. But many other mis
guided directions by you know it alls failed to mention that a two
valve bypass is better that the one valve and check valve version.
Also you failed to provide instructions to keep the drain plug for
the HWH out while winterized.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
Jon Porter
2005-05-26 14:29:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Boyd
Dont flatter your self, your ass never was worth kicking.
Any way some of your mis guiding information wont be of consequences as
the age of the HWH is pre Anode rod era and that is the prime reason not
to let the pink stuff get in the tank. But many other mis guided
directions by you know it alls failed to mention that a two valve bypass
is better that the one valve and check valve version. Also you failed to
provide instructions to keep the drain plug for the HWH out while
winterized.
There's no need to keep the drain plug out. The water heater tank is
basically a cylinder on it's side. The tiny puddle of water that might be
left in it will pose no problem it it freezes because there is plenty of
room for expansion.
--
Jon
JPinOH
William Boyd
2005-05-26 14:47:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Porter
Post by William Boyd
Dont flatter your self, your ass never was worth kicking.
Any way some of your mis guiding information wont be of consequences as
the age of the HWH is pre Anode rod era and that is the prime reason not
to let the pink stuff get in the tank. But many other mis guided
directions by you know it alls failed to mention that a two valve bypass
is better that the one valve and check valve version. Also you failed to
provide instructions to keep the drain plug for the HWH out while
winterized.
There's no need to keep the drain plug out. The water heater tank is
basically a cylinder on it's side. The tiny puddle of water that might be
left in it will pose no problem it it freezes because there is plenty of
room for expansion.
You are correct, except if your tank is equipped with an Anode rod
and the check valve at the hot water outlet. It can build up a small
amount of pressure off seating the check valve and dumping some of
the pink stuff in, corroding the Anode rod. Eventually all water
heaters will have the Anode rod, coming technology.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
RichA
2005-05-26 16:47:41 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 26 May 2005 09:47:43 -0500, William Boyd
Post by William Boyd
Post by Jon Porter
Post by William Boyd
Dont flatter your self, your ass never was worth kicking.
Any way some of your mis guiding information wont be of consequences as
the age of the HWH is pre Anode rod era and that is the prime reason not
to let the pink stuff get in the tank. But many other mis guided
directions by you know it alls failed to mention that a two valve bypass
is better that the one valve and check valve version. Also you failed to
provide instructions to keep the drain plug for the HWH out while
winterized.
There's no need to keep the drain plug out. The water heater tank is
basically a cylinder on it's side. The tiny puddle of water that might be
left in it will pose no problem it it freezes because there is plenty of
room for expansion.
You are correct, except if your tank is equipped with an Anode rod
and the check valve at the hot water outlet. It can build up a small
amount of pressure off seating the check valve and dumping some of
the pink stuff in, corroding the Anode rod. Eventually all water
heaters will have the Anode rod, coming technology.
William,
I can't believe you post some of the stuff you do.

First if you leave the drain plug out what is to keep insects and
other critters from crawling into the hot water tank? Where did you
hear this anode rod causing enough pressure build up in an empty RV
hot water tank to unseat any check valve? There is not enough
antifreeze on the other side of most checks valves after winterizing
to make any difference anyway. You would need a heck of a lot of
antifreeze in the tank to even reach the anode rod.

Second ALL hot water heaters in RV's have some form of anode. Either
a rod as used in Suburbans or the way the tank itself is built as in
Attwoods. Anode rods have been around for ages, it's not coming
technology, it's old technology.




RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
HD in NY
2005-05-27 00:47:50 UTC
Permalink
RichA wrote:
snipped
Post by RichA
Second ALL hot water heaters in RV's have some form of anode. Either
a rod as used in Suburbans or the way the tank itself is built as in
Attwoods. Anode rods have been around for ages, it's not coming
technology, it's old technology.
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
Bill has more screwed up ideas than all the regular posters
in this group put together :)
HD in NY
Lon VanOstran
2005-05-27 00:33:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Porter
There's no need to keep the drain plug out. The water heater tank is
basically a cylinder on it's side. The tiny puddle of water that might be
left in it will pose no problem it it freezes because there is plenty of
room for expansion.
I found that the bypass valves allow some seepage of the "pink stuff"
into the water heater, and that leaving the plug out and completing the
spring flush by thoroughly flushing out the water heater, with the tool
from Camping World made for that purpose, would prevent a foul odor from
the hot water. IMHO, it's worth the effort to flush it out before
deactivating the bypass.

Lon
Jon Porter
2005-05-27 15:36:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Porter
There's no need to keep the drain plug out. The water heater tank is
basically a cylinder on it's side. The tiny puddle of water that might be
left in it will pose no problem it it freezes because there is plenty of
room for expansion.
I found that the bypass valves allow some seepage of the "pink stuff" into
the water heater, and that leaving the plug out and completing the spring
flush by thoroughly flushing out the water heater, with the tool from
Camping World made for that purpose, would prevent a foul odor from the
hot water. IMHO, it's worth the effort to flush it out before deactivating
the bypass.
I always do flush it out in the spring, but that's not practical during
wither excursions when the weather is freezing. The bypass kit that I
installed is top notch, no seepage, so I don't worry about that.
--
Jon
JPinOH
R.J.(Bob) Evans
2005-05-25 14:17:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
You, sir, are dangerous. Those who don't know, and know that they don't
know are ignorant. Those who don't know and don't know that they don't
know are incurably ignorant. You are incurable.
Thank you Lon. Since Alan taught me about <ctrl>K I have been using
it frequently. I don't know why I hadn't applied it to Boyd Brain
sooner but now I have, thanks to your comments.



R.J.(Bob) Evans
(return address needs alteration to work)
Lon VanOstran
2005-05-25 23:15:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.J.(Bob) Evans
Post by Lon VanOstran
You, sir, are dangerous. Those who don't know, and know that they don't
know are ignorant. Those who don't know and don't know that they don't
know are incurably ignorant. You are incurable.
Thank you Lon. Since Alan taught me about <ctrl>K I have been using
it frequently. I don't know why I hadn't applied it to Boyd Brain
sooner but now I have, thanks to your comments.
I filter those who never post on topic, but have hesitated to filter
boyd brain because he posts so many stupid and dangerous ON TOPIC posts.
There are a lot of inexperienced people who come to this newsgroup for
help. It would be a damn shame if everyone who knows better was ignoring
the fool when he advises someone, who doesn't know better, to do
something stupid and dangerous. I feel as though we owe it to the
innocent to protect them from people like him. I'll keep reading his
posts for that reason.

Lon
William Boyd
2005-05-26 03:03:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by R.J.(Bob) Evans
Post by Lon VanOstran
You, sir, are dangerous. Those who don't know, and know that they
don't know are ignorant. Those who don't know and don't know that
they don't know are incurably ignorant. You are incurable.
Thank you Lon. Since Alan taught me about <ctrl>K I have been using
it frequently. I don't know why I hadn't applied it to Boyd Brain
sooner but now I have, thanks to your comments.
I filter those who never post on topic, but have hesitated to filter
boyd brain because he posts so many stupid and dangerous ON TOPIC posts.
There are a lot of inexperienced people who come to this newsgroup for
help. It would be a damn shame if everyone who knows better was ignoring
the fool when he advises someone, who doesn't know better, to do
something stupid and dangerous. I feel as though we owe it to the
innocent to protect them from people like him. I'll keep reading his
posts for that reason.
Lon
Sounds like you own stock in the pink stuff company. I agree it is
the fastest way to winterize in the moderate temp zone but if you go
to the real cold areas you cannot afford to have any dilution of it.
You must blow out all the water prior to injecting the antifreeze.
Air method alone will still work if done properly, for those that do
not know how to properly blow the air out should stick with the pink
stuff.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
RichA
2005-05-26 04:49:01 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 25 May 2005 22:03:15 -0500, William Boyd
Post by William Boyd
Post by Lon VanOstran
Post by R.J.(Bob) Evans
Post by Lon VanOstran
You, sir, are dangerous. Those who don't know, and know that they
don't know are ignorant. Those who don't know and don't know that
they don't know are incurably ignorant. You are incurable.
Thank you Lon. Since Alan taught me about <ctrl>K I have been using
it frequently. I don't know why I hadn't applied it to Boyd Brain
sooner but now I have, thanks to your comments.
I filter those who never post on topic, but have hesitated to filter
boyd brain because he posts so many stupid and dangerous ON TOPIC posts.
There are a lot of inexperienced people who come to this newsgroup for
help. It would be a damn shame if everyone who knows better was ignoring
the fool when he advises someone, who doesn't know better, to do
something stupid and dangerous. I feel as though we owe it to the
innocent to protect them from people like him. I'll keep reading his
posts for that reason.
Lon
Sounds like you own stock in the pink stuff company. I agree it is
the fastest way to winterize in the moderate temp zone but if you go
to the real cold areas you cannot afford to have any dilution of it.
You must blow out all the water prior to injecting the antifreeze.
Air method alone will still work if done properly, for those that do
not know how to properly blow the air out should stick with the pink
stuff.
William,
Sounds like you are trying to cover your tail here. But you are
still wrong. If you use antifreeze you don't need to blow out the
lines. You pump the antifreeze through the lines until it starts
coming out dark pink (the color of it in the bottle) at the faucets.
Any water in the lines will be pushed out by the antifreeze. The
water is not going to work it's way back through the antifreeze to
somehow mysteriously reappear after the antifreeze is gone. It won't
dilute the antifreeze except where it first comes in contact with the
water, then it will come out the faucet as a real light pink for just
a few seconds. Sounds like you never used RV antifreeze. When you
pump it through the lines, at the faucet you first get water coming
out then real light pink water then pure antifreeze. When the pure
antifreeze comes out your done with that line to that faucet.

The antifreeze I use is good down to minus 50 degrees undiluted. If
you live in an area that gets colder then that you don't need an RV,
you need an igloo on a sleigh and some sled dogs.

Take care and Happy Campin...
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
Lone Haranguer
2005-05-26 03:36:50 UTC
Permalink
Sounds like you own stock in the pink stuff company. I agree it is the
fastest way to winterize in the moderate temp zone but if you go to the
real cold areas you cannot afford to have any dilution of it. You must
blow out all the water prior to injecting the antifreeze. Air method
alone will still work if done properly, for those that do not know how
to properly blow the air out should stick with the pink stuff.
Bill, you weren't here then but I've told the story of our first trip
south in our first motorhome, Jan 1983.

It was a 1973 Superior and I had used about 6 gallons of the pink
stuff (think it cost $8/gal then) because I couldn't get at the water
heater to install a bypass. This was a quality motorhome with half
inch copper tubing for plumbing.

Took it south as far as central Mississippi before I dared drain it
and put water in. The streets of Jackson were covered with frost as
we passed through. Cars sliding everywhere...

Anyhoo, I only managed to save about 3 gallons when I drained it and
when we returned to MN it was well below zero. I had drained the
water in Missouri but couldn't find any pink stuff. Made a bunch of
stops looking for some but in late January, nobody had any left. So I
stopped at a liquor store and bought a couple of gallons of Rhine wine
which was cheaper than the pink stuff. It got slushy but didn't
damage any plumbing.

Plus it really smelled great when I opened the faucets a few months later.
LZ
William Boyd
2005-05-26 13:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lone Haranguer
Sounds like you own stock in the pink stuff company. I agree it is the
fastest way to winterize in the moderate temp zone but if you go to
the real cold areas you cannot afford to have any dilution of it. You
must blow out all the water prior to injecting the antifreeze. Air
method alone will still work if done properly, for those that do not
know how to properly blow the air out should stick with the pink stuff.
Bill, you weren't here then but I've told the story of our first trip
south in our first motorhome, Jan 1983.
It was a 1973 Superior and I had used about 6 gallons of the pink stuff
(think it cost $8/gal then) because I couldn't get at the water heater
to install a bypass. This was a quality motorhome with half inch copper
tubing for plumbing.
Took it south as far as central Mississippi before I dared drain it and
put water in. The streets of Jackson were covered with frost as we
passed through. Cars sliding everywhere...
Anyhoo, I only managed to save about 3 gallons when I drained it and
when we returned to MN it was well below zero. I had drained the water
in Missouri but couldn't find any pink stuff. Made a bunch of stops
looking for some but in late January, nobody had any left. So I stopped
at a liquor store and bought a couple of gallons of Rhine wine which
was cheaper than the pink stuff. It got slushy but didn't damage any
plumbing.
Plus it really smelled great when I opened the faucets a few months later.
LZ
Should have put Rum in it so you could carry your own personal
antifreeze back north with you, make a great hot toddy.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
Lone Haranguer
2005-05-26 13:41:21 UTC
Permalink
I
Post by William Boyd
Post by Lone Haranguer
stopped at a liquor store and bought a couple of gallons of Rhine
wine which was cheaper than the pink stuff. It got slushy but didn't
damage any plumbing.
Plus it really smelled great when I opened the faucets a few months later.
LZ
Should have put Rum in it so you could carry your own personal
antifreeze back north with you, make a great hot toddy.
Since we have been making trips to Algodones, I'd have enough booze on
board to winterize with no problem. I figure if I ever run out of
gas, I'd have enough to go about 20 miles. We drink very little of
the hard stuff anymore but mostly gift it away. I do maintain a
variety though, mostly for guests at the annual campout.
LZ
Lon VanOstran
2005-05-26 11:38:14 UTC
Permalink
Sounds like you own stock in the pink stuff company. I agree it is the
fastest way to winterize in the moderate temp zone but if you go to the
real cold areas you cannot afford to have any dilution of it. You must
blow out all the water prior to injecting the antifreeze. Air method
alone will still work if done properly, for those that do not know how
to properly blow the air out should stick with the pink stuff.
I have no doubt that you are so full of hot air that you can blow ALL of
the water out of any RV made. Keep up the good work.

Lon
William Boyd
2005-05-26 13:09:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lon VanOstran
Sounds like you own stock in the pink stuff company. I agree it is the
fastest way to winterize in the moderate temp zone but if you go to
the real cold areas you cannot afford to have any dilution of it. You
must blow out all the water prior to injecting the antifreeze. Air
method alone will still work if done properly, for those that do not
know how to properly blow the air out should stick with the pink stuff.
I have no doubt that you are so full of hot air that you can blow ALL of
the water out of any RV made. Keep up the good work.
Lon
I intend to keep up the good work, You see I had a hot water bypass
in my rig before they had them on the market. I mostly lived a, so
to speak, a nomadic life, being subjected to what they call RV life
before it was called recreation. Another example of the northern
living was a camp ground on the corner of ten mile road and
Dequinder, maybe you know where that is. You know every thing else.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
Lon VanOstran
2005-05-27 00:29:49 UTC
Permalink
I intend to keep up the good work, You see I had a hot water bypass in
my rig before they had them on the market. I mostly lived a, so to
speak, a nomadic life, being subjected to what they call RV life before
it was called recreation. Another example of the northern living was a
camp ground on the corner of ten mile road and Dequinder, maybe you know
where that is. You know every thing else.
I _do_ know where that is, but I certainly _don't_ know everything else.

Lon
news.wowway.com
2005-05-27 03:55:03 UTC
Permalink
Hazel Park Harness Raceway.

"I used to work out that way, just east of "Dequindre"

Bill, Canton, MI.

"William Boyd" <***@direcway.com> wrote in message news:***@individual.net...
Another example of the northern living was a camp ground on the corner of
ten mile road and
Dequinder, maybe you know where that is. You know every thing else.
Post by William Boyd
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
William Boyd
2005-05-27 04:54:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by news.wowway.com
Hazel Park Harness Raceway.
"I used to work out that way, just east of "Dequindre"
Bill, Canton, MI.
Hard to remember much, but was Hazel Park racetrack all the way out
to ten mile road, thought it was sooner. I was there when they raced
Thoroughbreds as well as harness horse. There was another track down
town that raced Thoroughbreds, trotters and pacers, Fair Grounds it
was called, around 47 or 48.
By 52 or 53 the Thoroughbreds had moved to Hazel Park.
--
BILL P.

2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram,
SLT, SWB, 2WD,
5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans,
Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner,
Husky 16K. Voyager Controller
2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi.
Dual EU2000i Hondas
Just Me and Dog
John Kaiser
2005-05-27 05:55:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Boyd
Post by Lon VanOstran
Sounds like you own stock in the pink stuff company. I agree it is the
fastest way to winterize in the moderate temp zone but if you go to
the real cold areas you cannot afford to have any dilution of it. You
must blow out all the water prior to injecting the antifreeze. Air
method alone will still work if done properly, for those that do not
know how to properly blow the air out should stick with the pink stuff.
I have no doubt that you are so full of hot air that you can blow ALL of
the water out of any RV made. Keep up the good work.
Lon
I intend to keep up the good work, You see I had a hot water bypass
in my rig before they had them on the market. I mostly lived a, so
to speak, a nomadic life, being subjected to what they call RV life
before it was called recreation. Another example of the northern
living was a camp ground on the corner of ten mile road and
Dequinder, maybe you know where that is. You know every thing else.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
10 mile and Dequindre was a dump "project"! It was not a campground for
sure, a trailer dump ground with tarp overs and crime, lots of it. Ferndale,
Madison Heights and Warren police wanted NO PART of that place.


--

John

- Did you ever notice:
The Roman Numerals for forty (40) are " XL."
c***@sbcglobal.net
2005-05-26 16:37:59 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 26 May 2005 07:38:14 -0400, Lon VanOstran
Post by Lon VanOstran
I have no doubt that you are so full of hot air that you can blow ALL of
the water out of any RV made. Keep up the good work.
Lon
Why does this typically brainless comment remind me of water hoses and
tennis balls? Must be the source.

Canoli
William Boyd
2005-05-27 03:11:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@sbcglobal.net
On Thu, 26 May 2005 07:38:14 -0400, Lon VanOstran
Post by Lon VanOstran
I have no doubt that you are so full of hot air that you can blow ALL of
the water out of any RV made. Keep up the good work.
Lon
Why does this typically brainless comment remind me of water hoses and
tennis balls? Must be the source.
Canoli
I really don't think you can consider him as even a source, WILL's
lap dog as some one else suggested, must nip while he is there.
--
BILL P.

2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram,
SLT, SWB, 2WD,
5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans,
Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner,
Husky 16K. Voyager Controller
2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi.
Dual EU2000i Hondas
Just Me and Dog
HD in NY
2005-05-27 00:48:49 UTC
Permalink
William Boyd wrote:
snipped
Sounds like you own stock in the pink stuff company. I agree it is the
fastest way to winterize in the moderate temp zone but if you go to the
real cold areas you cannot afford to have any dilution of it. You must
blow out all the water prior to injecting the antifreeze. Air method
alone will still work if done properly, for those that do not know how
to properly blow the air out should stick with the pink stuff.
Bull shit.
HD in NY
2005-05-25 17:35:04 UTC
Permalink
William Boyd wrote:
snipped
until half the summer was over. You see DUDE, I lived full time in
travel trailers when I was from very young to teen years. You have not
been around the circuit that long.
So what. The pink stuff has been around for decades and is
the *safest* way to winterize. I've done it this way since
the first TT we owned. It takes you more time to set up your
compressor than it does for me to winterize with pink stuff.
There is no downside to it. In the spring, I just flush the
line with fresh water and turn the water heater valves.
HD in NY
RichA
2005-05-24 17:28:33 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 24 May 2005 08:42:17 -0400, "Dan Listermann"
Post by Dan Listermann
How does the, for want of a better term, "the compressed air" method of
winterizing work. Can I eliminate the need for anti-freeze and the water
heater by-pass valve? We expect to use the camper into the early winter and
winterizing it with anti-freeze every time we use it sounds like a pain. I
have a plenty of compressed air on tap.
Dan
Hi,
If you live in an area that gets hard freezes you might want to spend
the extra time and few pennies on the anti freeze. It takes
approximately the same amount of time to blow air through the lines as
it does to run antifreeze through them, provided you have a
connection for connecting the antifreeze bottle to the pump. Besides
that when you run water through to get the antifreeze out, the
antifreeze will go to your tanks and help keep them from freezing if
you use them in the winter.

To blow the lines out you can get an adapter that screws into your
fresh water inlet. You open your low point drains, if you have them,
and drain any water you can, just like you do when using antifreeze.
You attach an air pump to this adapter and then blow out the lines
with the low point drains open. You then close the low point drains
and open each faucet in turn pumping any remaining water in those hot
and cold lines out. You have to be careful not to get to much air
pressure in the lines and blow them apart. You still have to put the
hot water heater in bypass and drain it. The problem is any water
that you didn't get out will tend to settle back to low points in the
lines and if there is enough and it freezes... You still need to put
antifreeze in the traps to keep odors out too.

Here in NE Pa. I use both methods when I winterize, first blow the
lines out then add antifreeze. Takes a little longer but I'm in no
hurry anyway. If you don't get consistent hard freezes then maybe
using air by itself is ok. The little water remaining might have
enough time to evaporate before it freezes, maybe :) Just have to
decide if you want to take the chance or not. I've had storage
compartments full of frozen water due to a fresh water tank leak. I
wouldn't want a busted water line letting water get all over the
inside of an RV in winter and then freezing.

Take care and Happy Campin...


RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
William Boyd
2005-05-25 03:03:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
On Tue, 24 May 2005 08:42:17 -0400, "Dan Listermann"
Post by Dan Listermann
How does the, for want of a better term, "the compressed air" method of
winterizing work. Can I eliminate the need for anti-freeze and the water
heater by-pass valve? We expect to use the camper into the early winter and
winterizing it with anti-freeze every time we use it sounds like a pain. I
have a plenty of compressed air on tap.
Dan
Hi,
If you live in an area that gets hard freezes you might want to spend
the extra time and few pennies on the anti freeze. It takes
approximately the same amount of time to blow air through the lines as
it does to run antifreeze through them, provided you have a
connection for connecting the antifreeze bottle to the pump. Besides
that when you run water through to get the antifreeze out, the
antifreeze will go to your tanks and help keep them from freezing if
you use them in the winter.
To blow the lines out you can get an adapter that screws into your
fresh water inlet. You open your low point drains, if you have them,
and drain any water you can, just like you do when using antifreeze.
You attach an air pump to this adapter and then blow out the lines
with the low point drains open. You then close the low point drains
and open each faucet in turn pumping any remaining water in those hot
and cold lines out. You have to be careful not to get to much air
pressure in the lines and blow them apart. You still have to put the
hot water heater in bypass and drain it. The problem is any water
that you didn't get out will tend to settle back to low points in the
lines and if there is enough and it freezes... You still need to put
antifreeze in the traps to keep odors out too.
Here in NE Pa. I use both methods when I winterize, first blow the
lines out then add antifreeze. Takes a little longer but I'm in no
hurry anyway. If you don't get consistent hard freezes then maybe
using air by itself is ok. The little water remaining might have
enough time to evaporate before it freezes, maybe :) Just have to
decide if you want to take the chance or not. I've had storage
compartments full of frozen water due to a fresh water tank leak. I
wouldn't want a busted water line letting water get all over the
inside of an RV in winter and then freezing.
Take care and Happy Campin...
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
Now days that is the most appropriate way to do it. First get rid
of the water in the lines, by draining as well as blowing the air to
help expel the water out low points and valves in the sinks, shower
, commode and where ever the water is. However if your water heater
has an Anode Rod in it you must remove it to prevent antifreeze from
coming in contact with it. That is the drain plug any way.
http://www.go-rv.com/coast/do/catalog/page?dealerId=7&pageNum=311
Isolate the hot water heater before charging the water system with
the pink stuff. A hot water heater bypass kit is available, as well
as the antifreeze siphon
kit.http://www.go-rv.com/coast/do/catalog/page?dealerId=7&pageNum=381
Note that the primary reason for expelling all the water is to not
dilute the antifreeze as the instructions on the product indicates.
That is the protection level is only acquired by not diluting.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
Jon Porter
2005-05-25 05:08:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
Here in NE Pa. I use both methods when I winterize, first blow the
lines out then add antifreeze.
I did that the first time that I winterized, and then talked to a service
rep at a local RV dealership. When they winterize their inventory they don't
leave the pink stuff in the pipes. They have a special machine that sucks it
back out so that they can use it on the next vehicle, it really saves them
some cash on the pink stuff that way. So I asked him the obvious: "Won't
that cause trouble when it freezes"? He replies, "No. Once the pink stuff
goes through the pipes, it displaces the water by pushing it out ahead of
it. No reason to leave it in there anymore." So, I stopped blowing out the
pipes. After winter time trips, I can winterize in ten minutes flat by
simply running the pink stuff through.
--
Jon
JPinOH
RichA
2005-05-26 01:01:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Porter
Post by RichA
Here in NE Pa. I use both methods when I winterize, first blow the
lines out then add antifreeze.
I did that the first time that I winterized, and then talked to a service
rep at a local RV dealership. When they winterize their inventory they don't
leave the pink stuff in the pipes. They have a special machine that sucks it
back out so that they can use it on the next vehicle, it really saves them
some cash on the pink stuff that way. So I asked him the obvious: "Won't
that cause trouble when it freezes"? He replies, "No. Once the pink stuff
goes through the pipes, it displaces the water by pushing it out ahead of
it. No reason to leave it in there anymore." So, I stopped blowing out the
pipes. After winter time trips, I can winterize in ten minutes flat by
simply running the pink stuff through.
Hi,
I was told the same thing by a large dealer in NY state. They do the
same thing, pump the antifreeze in and suck it back out. My question
to him was what happens to the antifreeze after it's been run though
20 different RV's? Mixing water with the RV antifreeze raises it
freeze point pretty dramatically. He just said they never had a
problem, but that most of their RV's don't have water in them anyway.
Which makes sense for a dealership of that size. They can do 50 or 60
RV using just a few gallons of antifreeze. Individually I would just
leave the stuff in there and flush it out in the spring.

I just do both because I want to. :) No need to blow out the pipes
if you are going to flush the lines using antifreeze for sure.

Take care and Happy Campin...
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
Jon Porter
2005-05-26 14:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichA
I was told the same thing by a large dealer in NY state. They do the
same thing, pump the antifreeze in and suck it back out. My question
to him was what happens to the antifreeze after it's been run though
20 different RV's? Mixing water with the RV antifreeze raises it
freeze point pretty dramatically. He just said they never had a
problem, but that most of their RV's don't have water in them anyway.
Which makes sense for a dealership of that size. They can do 50 or 60
RV using just a few gallons of antifreeze. Individually I would just
leave the stuff in there and flush it out in the spring.
I just do both because I want to. :) No need to blow out the pipes
if you are going to flush the lines using antifreeze for sure.
Nothing wrong with blowing out the pipes first, I just consider it a futile
effort on my Class B. When I tried blowing out the pipes, it never did get
all of the water out, and I don't haow much was left. I had that compressor
running for about 45 minutes and the faucets were still spitting water. And
that's with about 30 feet of pipe.

I don't even leave the antifreeze in there any more either, I just pull the
low point drains and let it out. That makes flushing the pipes during the
winter trips a faster operation.
--
Jon
JPinOH
RichA
2005-05-26 17:04:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Porter
Post by RichA
I was told the same thing by a large dealer in NY state. They do the
same thing, pump the antifreeze in and suck it back out. My question
to him was what happens to the antifreeze after it's been run though
20 different RV's? Mixing water with the RV antifreeze raises it
freeze point pretty dramatically. He just said they never had a
problem, but that most of their RV's don't have water in them anyway.
Which makes sense for a dealership of that size. They can do 50 or 60
RV using just a few gallons of antifreeze. Individually I would just
leave the stuff in there and flush it out in the spring.
I just do both because I want to. :) No need to blow out the pipes
if you are going to flush the lines using antifreeze for sure.
Nothing wrong with blowing out the pipes first, I just consider it a futile
effort on my Class B. When I tried blowing out the pipes, it never did get
all of the water out, and I don't haow much was left. I had that compressor
running for about 45 minutes and the faucets were still spitting water. And
that's with about 30 feet of pipe.
I don't even leave the antifreeze in there any more either, I just pull the
low point drains and let it out. That makes flushing the pipes during the
winter trips a faster operation.
I don't think you can get *all* the water out using just compressed
air. The air tends to spread the water out along the lines by forming
droplets. Only problem is once the air is turned off these droplets
tend to migrate back to low spots. You end up with some water in any
low spots in the plumbing. Enough to hurt? Depends upon how much is
left how long it has to sit and evaporate before it freezes etc. I
know I blow my lines out then flush with antifreeze and when I flush
with the antifreeze I still get a surprising amount of water being
pushed out.

I agree there really isn't any reason to let all the antifreeze sit
inside the lines once it's been flushed through. If you use the low
point drains it will leave any spots where water might still
accumulate full of antifreeze anyway. If you are going to use the RV
in the winter draining it out after winterizing speeds up the
de-winterizing process some for sure.

Take care and Happy Campin...
RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"
Jon Porter
2005-05-24 16:31:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee K
A friend of mine bought an RV last fall that was already winterized. The
previous owner, rather than using a bypass on the water heater, filled it
with anti-freeze. Any idea how long it takes to purge the water heater of
that stuff? He's filled the fresh water tank twice and run it through the
hot water tap and the water still runs slightly pink in the sink. Tried
draining the tank via the petcock on the side of the hot water tank but the
water only seems to dribble out, even with the faucet open.
My method is to open up the drain, open the pressure relief valve, and let
the water run while hooked up to a city water connection.
--
Jon
JPinOH
William Boyd
2005-05-25 19:13:07 UTC
Permalink
Will leaving the plug out keep the heater from stinking at end of
winter season?

engineer <***@wildapache.net>
-
My point was Will failed to inform any one to leave the plug out.
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
c***@sbcglobal.net
2005-05-25 20:31:14 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 25 May 2005 14:13:07 -0500, William Boyd
Post by William Boyd
Will leaving the plug out keep the heater from stinking at end of
winter season?
-
My point was Will failed to inform any one to leave the plug out.
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
I have disagreed with you in the past, and don't have a pony in this
race because I never have and never will winterize my WH, but as usual
The SillyOne and his lap dog demonize you for failing to genuflect as
they spread the holy writ.

Some may say they're simply rude, inconsequential jerks, but IMO they
both suffer badly from feelings of inadequacy, compensating by lashing
out at anyone who dares disagree with their carved-in-stone opinions.

Dinna fash yerself, Laddie, they are much like a basic garden tool,
the manure spreader.

Canoli
William Boyd
2005-05-26 03:10:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@sbcglobal.net
On Wed, 25 May 2005 14:13:07 -0500, William Boyd
Post by William Boyd
Will leaving the plug out keep the heater from stinking at end of
winter season?
-
My point was Will failed to inform any one to leave the plug out.
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
I have disagreed with you in the past, and don't have a pony in this
race because I never have and never will winterize my WH, but as usual
The SillyOne and his lap dog demonize you for failing to genuflect as
they spread the holy writ.
Some may say they're simply rude, inconsequential jerks, but IMO they
both suffer badly from feelings of inadequacy, compensating by lashing
out at anyone who dares disagree with their carved-in-stone opinions.
Dinna fash yerself, Laddie, they are much like a basic garden tool,
the manure spreader.
Canoli
I kinda thought their Jockey shorts was about two sizes to small also.
--
BILL P.
Just Dog
&
ME
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