OT: Al Qaeda beheads American

[El Alumbrado]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_2

OK, I'm finally there: "Death to those who oppose us!"

In the America I used to know, this would have been just about the worst
things these bastards could have done to promote their cause. I hope that we
as a people have not yet forgotten the definition of "Righteous Anger".

El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[Bob Hatch]

"El Alumbrado" <el****@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c7rch9$115r$***@news.f.de.plusline.net
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_2

Post by El Alumbrado
OK, I'm finally there: "Death to those who oppose us!"
In the America I used to know, this would have been just about the
worst things these bastards could have done to promote their cause. I
hope that we as a people have not yet forgotten the definition of
"Righteous Anger".
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

I've been there for some time. I'm tired of us trying to wage a PC war. I'm
tired of fat fucks like Ted Kennedy spouting off about the torture chambers
of Saddam being opened under new management. I'm tired of the press giving
all the time to the weak ass crap out of the prison and *nothing* about all
the good our troops are doing. Our troops are once again being forced to
fight with one hand and 1/2 a gun tied behind their backs and that is the
policy of the "search for power Democrats." They are doing everything they
can to make sure we fail in Iraq so they can say "I told you so."

It's long beyond time to *impose* peace on Iraq.

[Mark Jones]

Post by Bob Hatch
It's long beyond time to *impose* peace on Iraq.

We should lay waste to the entire area around any location
where they start taking pot shots at our troops. Teach them
that we will respond with overwhelming firepower instead of
just returning fire with a rifle.

As long as we allow them to do hit and run and only respond
with light weapons, they will continue to attack. A little more
"Shock and Awe" is called for.

[Lone Haranguer]

Post by Mark Jones
We should lay waste to the entire area around any location
where they start taking pot shots at our troops. Teach them
that we will respond with overwhelming firepower instead of
just returning fire with a rifle.
As long as we allow them to do hit and run and only respond
with light weapons, they will continue to attack. A little more
"Shock and Awe" is called for.

I agree and the nutcase Mullah Sadr should be used as a test project.
One fuel/air bomb on his hideout with plenty of video forwarded to Al
Jezeera.
LZ

[El Alumbrado]

Post by Lone Haranguer
I agree and the nutcase Mullah Sadr should be used as a test project.
One fuel/air bomb on his hideout with plenty of video forwarded to Al

This seems like an excellent application for an enhanced radiation (ER)
weapon, you know, the so-called "Neutron Bomb" that everybody was so worried
about back in the 80's. These things have minimal blast effects, but send
out a huge burst of high-energy "fast" neutrons (they don't rely on a tamper
to reflect the initial burst of neutrons back into the core to help feed the
reaction and instead let them escape; this results in an inefficient
thermo-nuclear reaction but produces a huge burst of highly penetrative
neutron radiation). Enhanced radiation weapons are usually low-yield and
relatively "clean" (in that they do not produce large amounts of fall out,
and in fact produce almost none if the weapon is not detonated in contact
with the ground). They generate an intense momentary neutron flux (think of
them as giant flash bulbs, except that the "light" they produce is lethal).
They were originally designed to stop Soviet tank advances into Western
Europe, and a small 1 kiloton (1/1000th of a megaton, or 1/20th the yield
of the Hiroshima bomb) ER weapon can induce an 8000 rad dose to a crew
inside an armored tank almost a kilometer from the explosion.This is enough
to kill the crew instantaneously (a whole-body dose of 600 rads is usually
considered lethal, but the effects are not noticeable for several hours).
The lethal range for unprotected people is about 2 kilometers, and the range
of the enhanced radiation effects far exceeds the range for lethal blast and
heat effects. There are almost no residual effects (although short-lived
secondary radiation can be present for up to 48 hours in large metal
structures like tank hulls; this is an added benefit to the weapons original
purpose of stopping armored advances: a new crew that occupies a previously
irradiated tank will receive a lethal 600 rad dose within 24 hours).

Seems just about perfect. Kills the lunatics but leaves the buildings intact
for more rational residents to re-occupy.

El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[Deano]

Post by Bob Hatch
I've been there for some time. I'm tired of us trying to wage a PC war. I'm
tired of fat fucks like Ted Kennedy spouting off about the torture chambers
of Saddam being opened under new management. I'm tired of the press giving
all the time to the weak ass crap out of the prison and *nothing* about all
the good our troops are doing. Our troops are once again being forced to
fight with one hand and 1/2 a gun tied behind their backs and that is the
policy of the "search for power Democrats." They are doing everything they
can to make sure we fail in Iraq so they can say "I told you so."
It's long beyond time to *impose* peace on Iraq.
--
"Your money does not cause my poverty. Refusal to believe
this is at the bottom of most bad economic thinking." --P. J. O'Rourke
http://www.bobhatch.com

Looks like you gotta little of that "blame America first" tude going on
don't ya? Stop fighting a two front war, the libs (at least this one) can
agree that this is an outrage and deserves a huge and unfriendly response.
Hell, maybe we should send Bush over there to personally see to our enemies
destruction.

Deano

[Carl A.]

"El Alumbrado" <el****@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c7rch9$115r$***@news.f.de.plusline.net...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_2

Post by El Alumbrado
OK, I'm finally there: "Death to those who oppose us!"
In the America I used to know, this would have been just about the worst
things these bastards could have done to promote their cause. I hope that we
as a people have not yet forgotten the definition of "Righteous Anger".
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

You are not a credit to your alma mater . . . the Liberal establishment has
decided that this was an understandable response and reaction to our abuse of
the Geneva Convention.

What say you, Harry Everhart?

And what, do you think, are the chances of the video being shown on 60 Minutes
are the evening news?

The America you used to know does not exist any more. Get over it and manage
your anger -- or you'll be sent to anger management class.

[El Alumbrado]

Post by Carl A.
And what, do you think, are the chances of the video being shown on 60 Minutes
are the evening news?

The video is available on Yahoo. It stops, mercifully, when the cheif
bastard pulls out the knife.

Post by Carl A.
The America you used to know does not exist any more. Get over it and manage
your anger -- or you'll be sent to anger management class.

I can manage my anger very adroitly, thank you. And direct it appropriately,
too.

We are at war with a medieval society with medieval values. Not all
societies are worth cherishing in the name of "diversity". Let's try to make
this one extinct.

El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[Bob Hatch]

Post by El Alumbrado
I can manage my anger very adroitly, thank you. And direct it
appropriately, too.
We are at war with a medieval society with medieval values. Not all
societies are worth cherishing in the name of "diversity". Let's try
to make this one extinct.

I agree, but I think we are in the minority. And that is part of the
problem. IMO, they want to make it a holy war, I say lets make it an un-holy
war.

We have been criticized for your destruction and bombing in Iraq during the
first days of the war. We have heard from several how we broke it and we
need to fix it, how we totally destroyed the infrastructure in Iraq. What do
you think they would have said if we had done this:

http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer/Aachen.htm
or this:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer/Koln1945.htm

My first policy would be: If you do anything like that again we will nuke
Mecca.

[El Alumbrado]

Post by Bob Hatch
My first policy would be: If you do anything like that again we will nuke
Mecca.

I am beyond anger. I feel much like I do when I find a scorpion in the
house. You don't get mad at it. You just kill it.

Let's stop all the breast beating and just kill these bastards. Coolly,
efficiently, and with as little cruelty as possible. But let's kill them.

El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[Bob Hatch]

Post by El Alumbrado

Post by Bob Hatch
My first policy would be: If you do anything like that again we will
nuke Mecca.

I am beyond anger. I feel much like I do when I find a scorpion in the
house. You don't get mad at it. You just kill it.
Let's stop all the breast beating and just kill these bastards.
Coolly, efficiently, and with as little cruelty as possible. But
let's kill them.
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

I agree, 100%. Now how do we get the message to those that have the power to
make the decision? Is it time for a Stand Up For America rally in DC? Is it
possible that we could get a million people to say "Win This War" in front
of the Lincoln Monument? What would we have to do to push the feelings over
the top to force our leaders, Congress, Bush, all, to take the steps
necessary to put the fear of Allah into them.

I'm open for ideas. If Move On and the CPUSA can do it we should be able to
do it.

[El Alumbrado]

Post by Bob Hatch

Post by El Alumbrado
Let's stop all the breast beating and just kill these bastards.
Coolly, efficiently, and with as little cruelty as possible. But
let's kill them.

I agree, 100%. Now how do we get the message to those that have the power to
make the decision? Is it time for a Stand Up For America rally in DC? Is it
possible that we could get a million people to say "Win This War" in front
of the Lincoln Monument? What would we have to do to push the feelings over
the top to force our leaders, Congress, Bush, all, to take the steps
necessary to put the fear of Allah into them.
I'm open for ideas. If Move On and the CPUSA can do it we should be able to
do it.

Interesting idea. Do you want to be the figurehead/point man? I may be able
to hook you up with some political and media sources.

This merits some thought...

El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[Bob Hatch]

Post by El Alumbrado
Interesting idea. Do you want to be the figurehead/point man? I may
be able to hook you up with some political and media sources.
This merits some thought...
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

I'm willing to do background planning and point man behind a visible and
respected figure head.

Maybe we should talk about this off the NG. My working email is bobhatch at
bobhatch.com.

It is time that those of us who have been silent start to speak out.

[Richard Harris]

Post by Bob Hatch

Post by El Alumbrado
Interesting idea. Do you want to be the figurehead/point man? I may
be able to hook you up with some political and media sources.
This merits some thought...
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

I'm willing to do background planning and point man behind a visible and
respected figure head.
Maybe we should talk about this off the NG. My working email is bobhatch at
bobhatch.com.
It is time that those of us who have been silent start to speak out.
--
"Your money does not cause my poverty. Refusal to believe
this is at the bottom of most bad economic thinking." --P. J. O'Rourke
http://www.bobhatch.com

Gentlemen, count me in. I'm tired of listening to the liberal press,
Hollywood, and the Kennedy-Kerryites etc saying we're ineffective and need
to be out of there. I agree, lets got the job done and do it right.
Rich
Remove spam to email me

[Badlander]

Post by Richard Harris
Gentlemen, count me in. I'm tired of listening to the liberal press,
Hollywood, and the Kennedy-Kerryites etc saying we're ineffective and need
to be out of there. I agree, lets got the job done and do it right.
Rich
Remove spam to email me

I suggest you all charter an aiplane and go over there and teach them a
lesson they will never forget! Or were you just going to send your
grandchildren?

[Lone Haranguer]

Post by Badlander
I suggest you all charter an aiplane and go over there and teach them a
lesson they will never forget! Or were you just going to send your
grandchildren?

We are going to strap you on the missile as a back up guidance system.
LZ

[Dave Thompson]

Post by Badlander

Post by Richard Harris
Gentlemen, count me in. I'm tired of listening to the liberal press,
Hollywood, and the Kennedy-Kerryites etc saying we're ineffective and need
to be out of there. I agree, lets got the job done and do it right.
Rich
Remove spam to email me

I suggest you all charter an aiplane and go over there and teach them a
lesson they will never forget! Or were you just going to send your
grandchildren?

Ahhh! That didn't take too long. The alternative is they will be here
killing your grandchildren. If you think they will leave us alone if we
play nice, your grand daughter will be the concubine of some radical goat
herder.

--
Dave Thompson

[Badlander]

The alternative is they will be here killing your grandchildren

And the reason they'll come is because we refused to stay out of their
affairs! But you don't seem to get it! You think they just looked at us and
decided they didn't like the colors we used for our flag or some other
equally stupid reason ! They hate us because our corruption is subjegating
them by their own leaders hands. You know! Those same leaders we
corrupted!?! Plain and simple! OIL! We need it, they have it!

If you think they will leave us alone if we
play nice,

Why should they? We haven't left them alone! We made of few of them so rich
and decadent that they have a good example of what our way of life does to
their part of the world! How it rules them unjustly! Their message is: get
out of our countries!

It all comes back to oil! Do you really think we'd be there if not for oil?
Are you really that stupid? If you think it's about idealism, then why have
we turned our backs on the Sudan? Or other parts of Africa in upheaval?
Where is our troops to free those people?

The real game is world domination! And the best way to play that one is by
putting your finger on valuable resources! No more valuable resource than
energy! Spelt O-I-L........ Black Gold......Texas Tea! Let me tell you 'bout
a man named Jed http://www.stanleyart.com/jed.html You remember don't yah!
Hillbillies taking over Islam! That's what they're fighting against!

I have a question for you! How will the Arab nations get here to attack us?
By their Navies? Do any of them have one? Aircraft carriers? Do any of them
have one? Uh........by bridge? I don't think so! By helicopter? By
auto...but that would need a bridge. By sailboat? Maybe! Here they come in
Armadas of small sail boats and submarines! Wait no Navy. Hmmm......

They'll probably just walk over our border (which is still relatively
unprotected) or come in a shipping containers (which are still unchecked) or
by Airplane! They could probably still pull that one off using our own! I
think the Airliner industry cried that it was too expensive to reinforce the
cockpit doors.

Yeah right! Name any Arab nation that could launch an attack on us in any
way shape or form that we couldn't have prevented at our borders!

So, we've played right into the actual terrorists hands. We have stirred up
the pot so badly by going after Saddam when we really shouldn't have! Now
they are recruting new members at an alarming rate! We didn't stop at
Afghanistan like we should! Because of that we're not making less
terrorists, we're making more! We are increasing their hatred, not lessoning
it! And all it took was for you to believe that Saddam was getting ready to
strike us with a nuke, and or sarin gas and or small pocks rockets and or
mustard gas bombs! How we was going to deliver them? Who knows! Maybe in
pickup trucks over the bridges to America!

[Lone Haranguer]

Post by Badlander
So, we've played right into the actual terrorists hands. We have stirred up
the pot so badly by going after Saddam when we really shouldn't have!

Horse puckey. He was looking forward to sharing nukes with Libya. For
what purpose? Because he couldn't call Orkin?

Now

Post by Badlander
they are recruting new members at an alarming rate! We didn't stop at
Afghanistan like we should!

The members were already recruited, they have just gathered in one spot.

Because of that we're not making less

Post by Badlander
terrorists, we're making more! We are increasing their hatred, not lessoning
it!

Can't be done. They already had their gain control for hate all the way up.

And all it took was for you to believe that Saddam was getting ready to

Post by Badlander
strike us with a nuke, and or sarin gas and or small pocks rockets and or
mustard gas bombs! How we was going to deliver them? Who knows! Maybe in
pickup trucks over the bridges to America!

America has interestes all over the world, just like other countries
have many interests in America. What about our tourists and
businessmen? Are they supposed to give up world travel because they
might be the targets of terrorists?

You are too stupid to have an oxygen permit, send it back.
LZ

[Badlander]

Post by Lone Haranguer
You are too stupid to have an oxygen permit, send it back.
LZ

And your PhullaShit!

[Richard Harris]

Post by Badlander

Post by Richard Harris
Gentlemen, count me in. I'm tired of listening to the liberal press,
Hollywood, and the Kennedy-Kerryites etc saying we're ineffective and need
to be out of there. I agree, lets got the job done and do it right.
Rich
Remove spam to email me

I suggest you all charter an aiplane and go over there and teach them a
lesson they will never forget! Or were you just going to send your
grandchildren?

FYI,
I just got back a month ago....... And let me tell you, after spending time
on both fronts, MOST of the people over there in BOTH Iraq and Afghanistan
Like what we're doing with the place. Matter of fact it seems more Americans
want us to QUIT than Iraqis and Afghans.

[mondaymorning]

I'm with you too. I see one thing we need to counteract real bad. The
liberals control the news and web-sites. It's real hard to find the truth
through all their spins. We need to change that. How about some more
web-sites?

Post by Richard Harris

Post by Bob Hatch

Post by El Alumbrado
Interesting idea. Do you want to be the figurehead/point man? I may
be able to hook you up with some political and media sources.
This merits some thought...
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

I'm willing to do background planning and point man behind a visible and
respected figure head.
Maybe we should talk about this off the NG. My working email is bobhatch

at

Post by Bob Hatch
bobhatch.com.
It is time that those of us who have been silent start to speak out.
--
"Your money does not cause my poverty. Refusal to believe
this is at the bottom of most bad economic thinking." --P. J. O'Rourke
http://www.bobhatch.com

Gentlemen, count me in. I'm tired of listening to the liberal press,
Hollywood, and the Kennedy-Kerryites etc saying we're ineffective and need
to be out of there. I agree, lets got the job done and do it right.
Rich
Remove spam to email me

[Badlander]

Post by mondaymorning
I'm with you too. I see one thing we need to counteract real bad. The
liberals control the news and web-sites. It's real hard to find the truth
through all their spins. We need to change that. How about some more
web-sites?

Better use some tape on that tinfoil hat!

[Carl A.]

Post by El Alumbrado

Post by Bob Hatch

Post by El Alumbrado
Let's stop all the breast beating and just kill these bastards.
Coolly, efficiently, and with as little cruelty as possible. But
let's kill them.

I agree, 100%. Now how do we get the message to those that have the power

to

Post by Bob Hatch
make the decision? Is it time for a Stand Up For America rally in DC? Is

it

Post by Bob Hatch
possible that we could get a million people to say "Win This War" in front
of the Lincoln Monument? What would we have to do to push the feelings

over

Post by Bob Hatch
the top to force our leaders, Congress, Bush, all, to take the steps
necessary to put the fear of Allah into them.
I'm open for ideas. If Move On and the CPUSA can do it we should be able

to

Post by Bob Hatch
do it.

Interesting idea. Do you want to be the figurehead/point man? I may be able
to hook you up with some political and media sources.
This merits some thought...
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

Let's have an RV caravan (that ought to keep the newsgroup nannies happy) to
Washington -- or better yet, to the Kennedy compound in Hyannisport. The Cape
is quite attractive during the summer.

[Carl A.]

Post by El Alumbrado

Post by Bob Hatch
My first policy would be: If you do anything like that again we will nuke
Mecca.

Would you blow up the Vatican because a handful of Catholic street kids in South
America knock off a Baptist missionary?

Post by El Alumbrado
Let's stop all the breast beating and just kill these bastards. Coolly,
efficiently, and with as little cruelty as possible. But let's kill them.

Were you in the military and would now pull 10 Al Qaeda members out of off-shore
captivity and shoot them to retaliate . . . your chances are 99 to 1 that a
military court will give you the death penalty. And yet that would be the only
reaction that the terrorists would respect and fear.

While we are not a nation of wimps, we are governed by wimps. And the
occasional official with backbone gets denigrated, vilified, dragged through the
mud by the likes of Sen. Bird, Kennedy, and Levin. Wimps instinctively need to
control those who have the warrior spirit.

It is much more important to about 50% of the electorate that we put people into
office who will suck up to special interest groups and welfare recipients, than
to elect patriots who will place the country's interest above their own.

[Bob Hatch]

Post by Carl A.
Would you blow up the Vatican because a handful of Catholic street
kids in South America knock off a Baptist missionary?

No. But if that same group or their friends then killed a bunch of folks in
several other places in the world and the numbers started pushing into the
thousands I would say, it's time to get your act in order or pay the
consequences. If the Catholic Church did something else, like step up and
condemn the murder, call for an end to it, preach from all pulpits that the
murder was wrong, denounce all priests that preach for murder of non
Catholics and report all those the know to support those actions I might
spare the Vatican. It depends on if I've had my morning coffee or not.

Post by Carl A.

Post by El Alumbrado
Let's stop all the breast beating and just kill these bastards.
Coolly, efficiently, and with as little cruelty as possible. But
let's kill them.

Were you in the military and would now pull 10 Al Qaeda members out
of off-shore captivity and shoot them to retaliate . . . your chances
are 99 to 1 that a military court will give you the death penalty.
And yet that would be the only reaction that the terrorists would
respect and fear.

Then we need to change the way we fight. Not only should we start executing
we should start executing with bullets dipped in pig blood.

Post by Carl A.
While we are not a nation of wimps, we are governed by wimps. And the
occasional official with backbone gets denigrated, vilified, dragged
through the mud by the likes of Sen. Bird, Kennedy, and Levin. Wimps
instinctively need to control those who have the warrior spirit.

True. And if the wimps get control in the upcoming election I predict we
will lose Iraq and that over 1/2 million will be executed by the government
that takes over.

Post by Carl A.
It is much more important to about 50% of the electorate that we put
people into office who will suck up to special interest groups and
welfare recipients, than to elect patriots who will place the
country's interest above their own.

So, what do we do? How do we change it?

[Will Sill]

Post by Carl A.
It is much more important to about 50% of the electorate that we put people into
office who will suck up to special interest groups and welfare recipients, than
to elect patriots who will place the country's interest above their own.

Which is part of the reason I responded to Jan by saying that liberal,
left-wing politics is the real driving force behind the media blitz to
make us look bad over the childish acts of a miniscule minority of our
soldiers. I predict the fatal abuse of another American - not even a
soldier, but someone there to help the country - will vanish from the
headlines long before the naked prisoners.

Will Sill

[Peter Pan]

Post by Will Sill

Post by Carl A.
It is much more important to about 50% of the electorate that we put
people into office who will suck up to special interest groups and
welfare recipients, than to elect patriots who will place the
country's interest above their own.

Which is part of the reason I responded to Jan by saying that liberal,
left-wing politics is the real driving force behind the media blitz to
make us look bad over the childish acts of a miniscule minority of our
soldiers. I predict the fatal abuse of another American - not even a
soldier, but someone there to help the country - will vanish from the
headlines long before the naked prisoners.
Will Sill

Too late will, I have been flipping betwen FOX and CNN, and CNN hasn't had a
SINGLE WORD ABOUT IT YET! They are still interviewing the dems from todays
hearings, who are bitching about the pubs.
Point being that it can't "Vanish" if it is never reported in the first
place!

[ULB]

On Tue, 11 May 2004 19:31:49 -0700, "Peter Pan"

Post by Peter Pan

Post by Will Sill

Post by Carl A.
It is much more important to about 50% of the electorate that we put
people into office who will suck up to special interest groups and
welfare recipients, than to elect patriots who will place the
country's interest above their own.

Which is part of the reason I responded to Jan by saying that liberal,
left-wing politics is the real driving force behind the media blitz to
make us look bad over the childish acts of a miniscule minority of our
soldiers. I predict the fatal abuse of another American - not even a
soldier, but someone there to help the country - will vanish from the
headlines long before the naked prisoners.
Will Sill

Too late will, I have been flipping betwen FOX and CNN, and CNN hasn't had a
SINGLE WORD ABOUT IT YET! They are still interviewing the dems from todays
hearings, who are bitching about the pubs.
Point being that it can't "Vanish" if it is never reported in the first
place!

It's all over AM talk radio. Check out www.drudgerport.com or all the
other cnn's.

[Richard Harris]

I wouldn't expect Crap News Network to carry the real news anyway.

[Peter Pan]

Post by ULB

Too late will, I have been flipping between FOX and CNN, and CNN
hasn't had a SINGLE WORD ABOUT IT YET! They are still interviewing
the dems from today's hearings, who are bitching about the pubs.
Point being that it can't "Vanish" if it is never reported in the
first place!

It's all over AM talk radio. Check out www.drudgerport.com or all the
other cnn's.

It's sort of funny, the headlines (from top breaking news headlines at
http://www.1stheadlines.com/ ) from many of the papers/news sources etc
(limited to 5PM to 9PM) show only TWO even bothered to report it!

MSNBC
General: Failure of leadership
Tue May 11, 2004 9:10 PM EDT

Reuters
General Finds 'Leadership Failure' Behind Abuse
Tue May 11, 2004 8:20 PM EDT

UK-BBC-World
Web a 'vital tool' for Islamists
Tue May 11, 2004 7:00 PM EDT

Chicago (IL) Tribune* (Reg. Required)
Killers: Beheading Avenges Prison Abuse
Tue May 11, 2004 7:00 PM EDT

CNN-World
Details of killing stun Berg's family
Tue May 11, 2004 6:20 PM EDT

Canada-CBC News
Commons committee ends public hearings into sponsorship
scandal
Tue May 11, 2004 6:10 PM EDT

CBS News-National
Judge To Deadbeat: Stop Breeding
Tue May 11, 2004 6:10 PM EDT

Los Angeles (CA) Times* (Reg. Required)
General Blames Inadequate Leadership in Prison Abuse
Tue May 11, 2004 6:10 PM EDT

Chicago (IL) Tribune* (Reg. Required)
Gov opposes Chicago casino plan
Tue May 11, 2004 5:20 PM EDT

CBS News-National
Kobe Pleads Not Guilty
Tue May 11, 2004 5:00 PM EDT

=============================================================
Only two news sources even bother to report it (CNN world and Chicago
Tribune), the rest don't even bother!

[Mark Jones]

Post by Carl A.
Would you blow up the Vatican because a handful of Catholic street kids in South
America knock off a Baptist missionary?

These are not kids performing these acts. These are military
and political leaders carrying out these heinous acts and we
can't seem to teach these people a lesson that will get
their attention. It is time that we did.

[Dave Thompson]

Post by Carl A.

Post by Bob Hatch
My first policy would be: If you do anything like that again we will nuke
Mecca.

Would you blow up the Vatican because a handful of Catholic street kids in South
America knock off a Baptist missionary?

If the Pope was standing on the steps of St. Peter's calling for the death
of me and all I believe in, yes.

--
Dave Thompson
RC

[Bob Hatch]

Post by Dave Thompson
If the Pope was standing on the steps of St. Peter's calling for the
death of me and all I believe in, yes.

A new war cry:

Live civilized or die!

[El Alumbrado]

Post by Bob Hatch
Live civilized or die!

You know, I kinda like it. This world's too small a place to share with
"uncivilized" cultures who don't work and play well with others.

El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[Alan Balmer]

Post by Carl A.

Post by Bob Hatch
My first policy would be: If you do anything like that again we will nuke
Mecca.

Would you blow up the Vatican because a handful of Catholic street kids in South
America knock off a Baptist missionary?

If the Vatican told them to? Why not?

[Carl A.]

Post by Alan Balmer

Post by Carl A.

Post by Bob Hatch
My first policy would be: If you do anything like that again we will nuke
Mecca.

Would you blow up the Vatican because a handful of Catholic street kids in South
America knock off a Baptist missionary?

If the Vatican told them to? Why not?
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting

I think you are overlooking that the very vast majority of the followers of
Islam do not support the terrorists. Mecca is their holiest of holies.

The terrorists would love for us to wipe out Mecca. It would increase their
strength by a factor of thousand.

Don't get mad, get even. Get even with the right crowd.

Why not start with those who are sabotaging the war on terror - right in the
United States Congress.

[Bob Hatch]

Post by Carl A.
I think you are overlooking that the very vast majority of the
followers of Islam do not support the terrorists. Mecca is their
holiest of holies.
The terrorists would love for us to wipe out Mecca. It would
increase their strength by a factor of thousand.
Don't get mad, get even. Get even with the right crowd.
Why not start with those who are sabotaging the war on terror - right
in the United States Congress.

That would be an excellent place to start, but sadly it won't happen. Ted
Kennedy said on TV just a couple of days ago that "The torture chambers of
Saddam had opened under new management", and he'll pay no penalty for that
statement, even though it's a lie and paints the troops with a very broad
brush. But he said it to get at Bush, so it's OK.

Here is the reason I say that we put out the warning and then maybe start
with a secondary site. A lot of the followers, while not overtly supporting
the terrorists, do so covertly. They do nothing to make the actions of the
terrorists unacceptable in the Arab world. They may know some who are active
or support the terrorists, but say, "I disagree but it's none of my
business." or "The will of Allah will prevail." or ??.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just angry and tired of the crap.

[canoli]

On Tue, 11 May 2004 16:14:47 -0500, "El Alumbrado"

Post by El Alumbrado
I am beyond anger. I feel much like I do when I find a scorpion in the
house. You don't get mad at it. You just kill it.
Let's stop all the breast beating and just kill these bastards. Coolly,
efficiently, and with as little cruelty as possible. But let's kill them.
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

It needs but a single, forceful act to demonstrate we're serious:
take Fallujah, and eliminate it completely. March everyone found
there buck naked and bare handed out into the desert, level the town,
destroy the water sources, salt the fields, forbid anyone to return.

Publicly promise to do the same to any town that shelters those who
commit atrocities and continue to attack us, and follow through.

No more playing pattycake, no talk of democracy, hands off the prison
guards, no kowtowing to world opinion or accommodating those here who
use the war for political gain, just conquer Iraq and be done with it.
When we have complete control, when the insurgents are too frightened
of us to attack, then we can start discussing self rule but always
from a position of an occupying and conquering superpower.

Publicly beheading Saddam wouldn't be a bad way to start.

Canoli

[Ben Hogland]

Post by canoli
No more playing pattycake, no talk of democracy, hands off the prison
guards, no kowtowing to world opinion or accommodating those here who
use the war for political gain, just conquer Iraq and be done with it.
When we have complete control, when the insurgents are too frightened
of us to attack, then we can start discussing self rule but always
from a position of an occupying and conquering superpower.

While at the same time telling them "it's all for your own good" and "we
are here to liberate you". Uh huh..

Ben

[Lone Haranguer]

Post by Ben Hogland
While at the same time telling them "it's all for your own good" and "we
are here to liberate you". Uh huh..

That won't work, the FBI used that at Waco already.
LZ

[Richard Harris]

Don't blsme the FBI for Janet Reno's debacle!

Post by Lone Haranguer

Post by Ben Hogland
While at the same time telling them "it's all for your own good" and "we
are here to liberate you". Uh huh..

That won't work, the FBI used that at Waco already.
LZ

[Lone Haranguer]

Post by Richard Harris
Don't blsme the FBI for Janet Reno's debacle!

Why not? They carried them out. "I vas chust followink orders" is not
a viable defense.
LZ

[El Alumbrado]

Post by Richard Harris
Don't blsme the FBI for Janet Reno's debacle!

Right. It was mostly the BATF who were the out of control evil bastard
cowboys in that instance.

El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[El Alumbrado]

Post by Ben Hogland

Post by canoli
No more playing pattycake, no talk of democracy, hands off the prison
guards, no kowtowing to world opinion or accommodating those here who
use the war for political gain, just conquer Iraq and be done with it.
When we have complete control, when the insurgents are too frightened
of us to attack, then we can start discussing self rule but always
from a position of an occupying and conquering superpower.

While at the same time telling them "it's all for your own good" and "we
are here to liberate you". Uh huh..

We're not there to "liberate" them. That's just PC mumbo-jumbo. We're there
to *stop* them.

El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[Alan Balmer]

On Wed, 12 May 2004 12:17:42 -0500, "El Alumbrado"

Post by El Alumbrado

Post by Ben Hogland

Post by canoli
No more playing pattycake, no talk of democracy, hands off the prison
guards, no kowtowing to world opinion or accommodating those here who
use the war for political gain, just conquer Iraq and be done with it.
When we have complete control, when the insurgents are too frightened
of us to attack, then we can start discussing self rule but always
from a position of an occupying and conquering superpower.

While at the same time telling them "it's all for your own good" and "we
are here to liberate you". Uh huh..

We're not there to "liberate" them. That's just PC mumbo-jumbo. We're there
to *stop* them.

We're there to stop the ones who need stopping and liberate the ones
who need liberating.

We seem to forget that we can have multiple goals, just as we forget
that there were multiple reasons to go to war with Iraq.

[Carl A.]

Post by canoli
On Tue, 11 May 2004 16:14:47 -0500, "El Alumbrado"

Post by El Alumbrado
I am beyond anger. I feel much like I do when I find a scorpion in the
house. You don't get mad at it. You just kill it.
Let's stop all the breast beating and just kill these bastards. Coolly,
efficiently, and with as little cruelty as possible. But let's kill them.
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

take Fallujah, and eliminate it completely. March everyone found
there buck naked and bare handed out into the desert, level the town,
destroy the water sources, salt the fields, forbid anyone to return.
Publicly promise to do the same to any town that shelters those who
commit atrocities and continue to attack us, and follow through.
No more playing pattycake, no talk of democracy, hands off the prison
guards, no kowtowing to world opinion or accommodating those here who
use the war for political gain, just conquer Iraq and be done with it.
When we have complete control, when the insurgents are too frightened
of us to attack, then we can start discussing self rule but always
from a position of an occupying and conquering superpower.
Publicly beheading Saddam wouldn't be a bad way to start.
Canoli

Assume for a moment that Bush would agree with you. (As he should)

You have just handed the presidency to Ted Kennedy and his front man, John
Kerry.

[Deano]

Post by Bob Hatch
My first policy would be: If you do anything like that again we will nuke
Mecca.
http://www.bobhatch.com

Just saw the video, agreed, nuke the bastards!

Deano

[Bob Hatch]

Post by Deano

Post by Bob Hatch
My first policy would be: If you do anything like that again we will
nuke Mecca.
http://www.bobhatch.com

Just saw the video, agreed, nuke the bastards!
Deano

Whatever it takes to bring them to their knees!!!

Would you, or anyone, be willing to hold your breath waiting for statements
for outrage coming from the Arab/Muslim community? What do you think the
chances are of the President of Egypt condemning the actions? How about
anyone from the House of Saud, or Jordan? Maybe some of the Clerics in the
US going on national TV denouncing the behavior?

[Bob Hatch]

Post by Bob Hatch
Would you, or anyone, be willing to hold your breath waiting for
statements for outrage coming from the Arab/Muslim community? What do
you think the chances are of the President of Egypt condemning the
actions? How about anyone from the House of Saud, or Jordan? Maybe
some of the Clerics in the US going on national TV denouncing the
behavior?

The outrage by the Arabs to the beheading:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119707,00.html

I thought this statement said it all:

"Such revenge is rejected," Bakri said of the execution. "The American
administration will make use of such crimes just to cover their real crimes
against Iraqis."

Bah.

[Carl A.]

Post by Bob Hatch

Post by Bob Hatch
Would you, or anyone, be willing to hold your breath waiting for
statements for outrage coming from the Arab/Muslim community? What do
you think the chances are of the President of Egypt condemning the
actions? How about anyone from the House of Saud, or Jordan? Maybe
some of the Clerics in the US going on national TV denouncing the
behavior?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119707,00.html

It took less than three months for the fury over 9/11 to be mitigated by learned
articles from leftist intellectuals claiming (a) that eye-for-an-eye retaliation
would be "uncivilized," (b) that it was an isolated act by 19 misguided young
men, and (c) that it was all our own fault. It took less than three years for
9/11 to have become a political football.

Based on the above, I predict that within a week we will be inundated by leftist
reports that (a) Berg had no business being in Iraq - that he brought his death
on himself, (b) that he died because of the way the Bush administration treats
prisoners, (c) that we shouldn't be in Iraq in the first place, (d) that one
dead American hardly justifies putting more American lives at risk, and (e) that
it would be uncivilized to retaliate.

BTW, for all those who refuse to see a linkage between Al Qaida and Saddam, Abu
Musab al-Zarqawi was given refuge in Iraq by Saddam, and sent by him to the
north to train Al Qaida people.

[Mark Jones]

Post by Bob Hatch
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119707,00.html
"Such revenge is rejected," Bakri said of the execution. "The American
administration will make use of such crimes just to cover their real crimes
against Iraqis."

Here is another example:

"In many Arab newspapers, the beheading received less play than the
news of America's imposing sanctions on Syria"

[Alan Balmer]

Post by Bob Hatch

Post by Bob Hatch
Would you, or anyone, be willing to hold your breath waiting for
statements for outrage coming from the Arab/Muslim community? What do
you think the chances are of the President of Egypt condemning the
actions? How about anyone from the House of Saud, or Jordan? Maybe
some of the Clerics in the US going on national TV denouncing the
behavior?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119707,00.html
"Such revenge is rejected," Bakri said of the execution. "The American
administration will make use of such crimes just to cover their real crimes
against Iraqis."
Bah.

I found another item bemusing - "demonstration by about 50 Egyptian
journalists and lawyers against American rights abuses in Iraq." It's
an interesting statement, since not long ago, the Iraqis didn't have
any rights to abuse ;-)

[ULB]

On Tue, 11 May 2004 17:48:52 -0700, "Deano"

Post by Deano

Post by Bob Hatch
My first policy would be: If you do anything like that again we will nuke
Mecca.
http://www.bobhatch.com

Just saw the video, agreed, nuke the bastards!
Deano

I just saw the video in 'raw' form. I am still sick to my stomache,
and wish I never saw it. My heart goes out to the family of this man
and to all other fallen coalition and still fighting good ol' boys and
girls.

[Nstymilo]

Two words: Neutron Bomb.

Post by Deano

Post by Bob Hatch
My first policy would be: If you do anything like that again we will nuke
Mecca.
http://www.bobhatch.com

Just saw the video, agreed, nuke the bastards!
Deano

[Carl A.]

Post by Nstymilo
Two words: Neutron Bomb.

Post by Deano

Post by Bob Hatch
My first policy would be: If you do anything like that again we will

nuke

Post by Deano

Post by Bob Hatch
Mecca.
http://www.bobhatch.com

Just saw the video, agreed, nuke the bastards!
Deano

Nonsense. It's like dropping an atom bomb on Luxembourg. The collateral damage
would be incredible.

Instead, repudiate the Geneva Convention as far as terrorists and their
supporters are concerned. Erase any city that succors terrorists.

It would also be a good idea to relocate senators Kennedy, Bird, and Levin to
those cities -- prior to the erasing.

[Deano]

Post by Carl A.

Post by Deano
Just saw the video, agreed, nuke the bastards!
Deano

Nonsense. It's like dropping an atom bomb on Luxembourg. The collateral damage
would be incredible.
Instead, repudiate the Geneva Convention as far as terrorists and their
supporters are concerned. Erase any city that succors terrorists.
It would also be a good idea to relocate senators Kennedy, Bird, and Levin to
those cities -- prior to the erasing.
--
Carl A. in FL
Enjoy photo-journals of my travels at
http://sky.prohosting.com/chainfl/index.htm

Since Bush got fooled so badly by faulty intel last time, maybe he should
personally go into said doomed city ahead of time to make sure that it has
the appropriate evil doers in it. Just strap on a pair of six shooters and
let him at it.

Deano

[Peter Pan]

Post by Deano

Post by Carl A.

Post by Deano
Just saw the video, agreed, nuke the bastards!
Deano

Nonsense. It's like dropping an atom bomb on Luxembourg. The
collateral damage would be incredible.
Instead, repudiate the Geneva Convention as far as terrorists and
their supporters are concerned. Erase any city that succors
terrorists.
It would also be a good idea to relocate senators Kennedy, Bird, and
Levin to those cities -- prior to the erasing.
--
Carl A. in FL
Enjoy photo-journals of my travels at
http://sky.prohosting.com/chainfl/index.htm

Since Bush got fooled so badly by faulty intel last time, maybe he
should personally go into said doomed city ahead of time to make sure
that it has the appropriate evil doers in it. Just strap on a pair of
six shooters and let him at it.
Deano

How bout we kill two birds with one stone, know all those gas things we have
in storage and have to get rid of? We know saddam had some in the past, How
bout we ship em to Iraq, put em in old shells inside the mosques, set em to
leak, and then when everyone is dead we can say they must have old stuff
that leaked and killed everyone. :)

[Alan Balmer]

On Tue, 11 May 2004 20:56:37 -0700, "Deano"

Post by Carl A.

Post by Carl A.

Post by Deano
Just saw the video, agreed, nuke the bastards!
Deano

Nonsense. It's like dropping an atom bomb on Luxembourg. The collateral

damage

Post by Carl A.
would be incredible.
Instead, repudiate the Geneva Convention as far as terrorists and their
supporters are concerned. Erase any city that succors terrorists.
It would also be a good idea to relocate senators Kennedy, Bird, and Levin

to

Post by Carl A.
those cities -- prior to the erasing.
--
Carl A. in FL
Enjoy photo-journals of my travels at
http://sky.prohosting.com/chainfl/index.htm

Since Bush got fooled so badly by faulty intel last time, maybe he should
personally go into said doomed city ahead of time to make sure that it has
the appropriate evil doers in it. Just strap on a pair of six shooters and
let him at it.

So, all this atrocity means to you is another chance to jab at Bush.
Sad.

[El Alumbrado]

Post by Nstymilo
Two words: Neutron Bomb.

Great minds think alike. As one who played a minor role in the development
of these little beauties, I would say that this would be a perfect use for
them.

Don, can you jin us up a jingle for the advertising campaign....

"New Enhanced Radiation Bombs: Kills pesky terrorists dead!"

El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[Carl A.]

Post by El Alumbrado

Post by Nstymilo
Two words: Neutron Bomb.

Great minds think alike. As one who played a minor role in the development
of these little beauties, I would say that this would be a perfect use for
them.
Don, can you jin us up a jingle for the advertising campaign....
"New Enhanced Radiation Bombs: Kills pesky terrorists dead!"
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

Get real!

Our leaders don't have the guts to lead --- or if they do, the "loyal"
opposition will sabotage them.

As long as about 50% of the voters support the likes of Ted Kennedy and his sock
puppet John Kerry, and incompetents like senators Bird and Levin -- we will not
see an appropriate response.

And, irony of ironies, the father of the victim is now suing the US government
for causing his son to miss his flight!

Our society is getting what it deserves.

[El Alumbrado]

Post by Carl A.
Our society is getting what it deserves.

Always has. Always will. What's your point?

El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[Carl A.]

Post by El Alumbrado

Post by Carl A.
Our society is getting what it deserves.

Always has. Always will. What's your point?
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

Don't indulge your inner child by conjuring up visions of dropping neutron
bombs.

Instead work to remove from the US Congress those who sabotage the war on
terrorism.

Start with Kennedy, Levin, Bird, Durban. Send money to their opponents.

Support straight thinkers like Senator Inhofe. Send him a couple of thousand $.

Get the point now?

[El Alumbrado]

Post by Carl A.

Post by El Alumbrado

Post by Carl A.
Our society is getting what it deserves.

Always has. Always will. What's your point?

Don't indulge your inner child by conjuring up visions of dropping neutron
bombs.
Instead work to remove from the US Congress those who sabotage the war on
terrorism.
Start with Kennedy, Levin, Bird, Durban. Send money to their opponents.
Support straight thinkers like Senator Inhofe. Send him a couple of thousand $.
Get the point now?

Sure. I think I did before too. But sheep will get slaughtered no matter who
holds the knife. Having said that, I have made donations to several
political sheep shearers who I believe can make a difference. In fact, some
years ago some so-called "friends" of mine offered to finance me if I agreed
to run for Congress. I ran and hid. I don't want the job, but I'm willing to
help some other damn fool who does if I think he can accomplish something
useful. While Libertarians can be somewhat loopy, I like their general "no
harm, no foul" philosophy. Demopublicans all pretty much have the same
stink, no matter what cologne they happen to be wearing at any given
instant.

Besides, we spent *so much* money on exotic weapons, wouldn't it be fun to
use one? (That's a joke, Carl. A sick, twisted disgusting joke.)

El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[Mark Jones]

Post by El Alumbrado
We are at war with a medieval society with medieval values. Not all
societies are worth cherishing in the name of "diversity". Let's try to make
this one extinct.

It is a shame that the Crusades did not succeed.

[BD]

Post by El Alumbrado
We are at war with a medieval society with medieval values. Not all
societies are worth cherishing in the name of "diversity". Let's try to make
this one extinct.
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

After having viewed the video in it's entirety, I can say that these
"people" and I use the term generously, are deserving of the total and
complete wrath that we can bring to bear. We should IMO, draw a circle
around the city that gives shelter to these people and poof it without
hesitation. Then demand that for every new cowardly street explosion, for
every person dancing in the street, for one more masked person on Al Jazera
that raises an automatic weapon... we will continue with another city and
help them on their way to Allah. The UN can kiss our ass!

If you can view this video and not have your blood boil for revenge, you are
not a true American.

BD

[Bob Hatch]

Post by BD
After having viewed the video in it's entirety, I can say that these
"people" and I use the term generously, are deserving of the total and
complete wrath that we can bring to bear. We should IMO, draw a circle
around the city that gives shelter to these people and poof it without
hesitation. Then demand that for every new cowardly street explosion,
for every person dancing in the street, for one more masked person on
Al Jazera that raises an automatic weapon... we will continue with
another city and help them on their way to Allah. The UN can kiss our
ass!
If you can view this video and not have your blood boil for revenge,
you are not a true American.
BD

I will take your word for it. I will not watch it. Period. I did not go on
the web during the initial phases of the war to see the US Soldiers that had
been killed and then the bodies put on display. I'm not saying anything
against those who want to see this and do so. I will not. The descriptions
are enough for me.

My blood has been boiling for revenge long before this.

[Guess Who?]

I notice there's lots of "blood boiling", over the ghastly murder.
They've got several hostages now, including that soldier. I don't
think the terrorists are going to stop now. They learned how well it
worked, filming Russian soldiers in Afghanistan getting their throats
cut.
Planning a war, while in a state of rage, is a poor way to plan a
war. It's real easy to act stupid. Stupidity, is how we got there in
the first place...
Why are we trying to fix their water, and electricity, if this is
what we get in return?
I don't think this is the time to go bombing everything, every place,
when we're already extending our forces, for 120 days. do you?
Posters here, are talking about expanding the war into other
countries. That sort of stuff might raise gas up to $20 per gallon.
How do you think the rest of the world would view a nation who'd cause
that much trouble in the world?
Didn't we get ourselves into this jam, by being the big shots, who
wouldn't wait for the rest of the world, to make war?
Looks like the first thing to do, when you're in a hole is to stop
digging...
Don
PS
Bob Hatch
No, I don't "get it". Please explain what we're accomplishing in
Iraq, then tell me, if it's the same thing, Bush said we were
doing....

[Peter Pan]

"Guess Who?" <***@webtv.net> wrote in message news:5403-40A1D577-***@storefull-3132.bay.webtv.net
<crapola snipped>
I never realized you were such a dumb useless ass until I read another one
of your idiotic posts. You are such a stupid fuck and have been told the
answer to your question 100's of times, yet you ignore every reply and just
keep spewing out your crap.

Just to keep it RV related, I've had overflowing black tanks that don't spew
out as much crap as you do.

BIOYA

[Lone Haranguer]

Post by Guess Who?
I notice there's lots of "blood boiling", over the ghastly murder.
They've got several hostages now, including that soldier. I don't
think the terrorists are going to stop now. They learned how well it
worked, filming Russian soldiers in Afghanistan getting their throats
cut.

Some years ago, in Beirut, the Russkies had 4 diplomats captured by
similar thugs. The Russkies sent in some Spetnaz, located the thugs'
relatives, chopped them up into recognizable parts and sent them to the
thugs. They got all 4 of their diplomats back in good shape.

Terrorists understand terror very well.

Post by Guess Who?
Planning a war, while in a state of rage, is a poor way to plan a
war. It's real easy to act stupid. Stupidity, is how we got there in
the first place...
Why are we trying to fix their water, and electricity, if this is
what we get in return?

To keep the liberals from whining that we destroyed the Iraqi's
infrastructure (like Clinton did in Serbia, in case you've forgotten).

Post by Guess Who?
I don't think this is the time to go bombing everything, every place,
when we're already extending our forces, for 120 days. do you?
Posters here, are talking about expanding the war into other
countries. That sort of stuff might raise gas up to $20 per gallon.

That should expedite alternative fuels research and leave the
oil-producing countries with a low demand for the only thing they have
to sell.

Post by Guess Who?
How do you think the rest of the world would view a nation who'd cause
that much trouble in the world?

Who gives a shit?

Post by Guess Who?
Didn't we get ourselves into this jam, by being the big shots, who
wouldn't wait for the rest of the world, to make war?

<snicker> Wouldn't happen in this lifetime. Maybe your second or third.

Post by Guess Who?
Looks like the first thing to do, when you're in a hole is to stop
digging...

The best defense is an aggressive offense. As Madame Halfbright said,
"What good is a great army if you don't use it"?
LZ

[RVnKen]

Post by Lone Haranguer

Post by Guess Who?
I notice there's lots of "blood boiling", over the ghastly murder.
They've got several hostages now, including that soldier. I don't
think the terrorists are going to stop now. They learned how well it
worked, filming Russian soldiers in Afghanistan getting their throats
cut.

Some years ago, in Beirut, the Russkies had 4 diplomats captured by
similar thugs. The Russkies sent in some Spetnaz, located the thugs'
relatives, chopped them up into recognizable parts and sent them to the
thugs. They got all 4 of their diplomats back in good shape.
Terrorists understand terror very well.

Post by Guess Who?
Planning a war, while in a state of rage, is a poor way to plan a
war. It's real easy to act stupid. Stupidity, is how we got there in
the first place...
Why are we trying to fix their water, and electricity, if this is
what we get in return?

To keep the liberals from whining that we destroyed the Iraqi's
infrastructure (like Clinton did in Serbia, in case you've forgotten).

Post by Guess Who?
I don't think this is the time to go bombing everything, every place,
when we're already extending our forces, for 120 days. do you?
Posters here, are talking about expanding the war into other
countries. That sort of stuff might raise gas up to $20 per gallon.

That should expedite alternative fuels research and leave the
oil-producing countries with a low demand for the only thing they have
to sell.

Post by Guess Who?
How do you think the rest of the world would view a nation who'd cause
that much trouble in the world?

Who gives a shit?

Post by Guess Who?
Didn't we get ourselves into this jam, by being the big shots, who
wouldn't wait for the rest of the world, to make war?

<snicker> Wouldn't happen in this lifetime. Maybe your second or third.

Post by Guess Who?
Looks like the first thing to do, when you're in a hole is to stop
digging...

The best defense is an aggressive offense. As Madame Halfbright said,
"What good is a great army if you don't use it"?
LZ

Just a point to ponder. When the Nazi's occupied a country and one of their
men was killed, they rounded up the villagers and shot 10 for 1. Is this what
we want to do now in Iraq?


Retired U.S.N. in Las Vegas,NV. Planning on heading North in late May to
White Fish, MT after a month in Thermopolis,WY

[Jenny6833A]

Post by RVnKen
Just a point to ponder. When the Nazi's occupied a country and one of their
men was killed, they rounded up the villagers and shot 10 for 1.

And each time the Nazi occupiers turned terrorist, hundreds of formerly neutral
locals began actively participating in the resistance -- which in turn got more
of the occupying terrorists killed.

Post by RVnKen
Is this what we want to do now in Iraq?

If we want the Iraqi resistance to grow (and grow and grow ...), that's exactly
what we ought to do.

:-)

Jenny

Before emailing, remove Clothes

[Carl A.]

Post by Jenny6833A

Post by RVnKen
Just a point to ponder. When the Nazi's occupied a country and one of their
men was killed, they rounded up the villagers and shot 10 for 1.

And each time the Nazi occupiers turned terrorist, hundreds of formerly neutral
locals began actively participating in the resistance -- which in turn got more
of the occupying terrorists killed.

That is historically inaccurate.

It also helps if instead of shooting hostages in a ratio of 10:1, you eradicate
the whole village and any reporter who might have thoughts to write about it.

[canoli]

Post by Jenny6833A
And each time the Nazi occupiers turned terrorist, hundreds of formerly neutral
locals began actively participating in the resistance -- which in turn got more
of the occupying terrorists killed.

Post by RVnKen
Is this what we want to do now in Iraq?

If we want the Iraqi resistance to grow (and grow and grow ...), that's exactly
what we ought to do.
:-)
Jenny

Sometimes, there is no viable alternative to harsh treatment, once the
tip point has been reached. That's where we are now, unable to back
out, unwilling to go forward because of political concerns. The only
practical option, to neutralize the insurgents with cruel and
overwhelming force, is also the single method left to us which will
end this miserable business.

Everything else is appeasement, acquiescing to political solutions of
a situation that is not negotiable. The schoolyard bully doesn't
yield to kind words and coronets, he stops being pugnacious when he
gets his head handed to him, literally.

Canoli

Post by Jenny6833A
Before emailing, remove Clothes

[El Alumbrado]

Post by RVnKen
Just a point to ponder. When the Nazi's occupied a country and one of their
men was killed, they rounded up the villagers and shot 10 for 1. Is this what
we want to do now in Iraq?

Ken, I suspect that many of us are just venting some "righteous anger". I
suspect that even the most militant of us doesn't want to kill "innocent"
villagers. Of course, I'm all for killing terrorists on a 10-to-1 or greater
ratio once they have been identified as such. Alas, that's the hard part.

An "eye for an eye" just makes the whole world blind. A "head for an eye"
tends to thin out the people that like to poke out eyes.

El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[Badlander]

Post by El Alumbrado
Ken, I suspect that many of us are just venting some "righteous anger". I
suspect that even the most militant of us doesn't want to kill "innocent"
villagers.

Problem is that the one isn't happening without the other! So the ones we
want to get rid of are gaining support that they didn't really have before!

Post by El Alumbrado
Of course, I'm all for killing terrorists on a 10-to-1 or greater
ratio once they have been identified as such. Alas, that's the hard part.

And it's also the part that wasn't thought out to clearly! Or was it deemed
okay and acceptable for the loss of innocents. You cannot close your eyes
when one of their innocents gets killed and then wish them all dead when one
of ours gets killed can you? Is that right and just? Everyone agrees that we
want terrorists dead or in jail! But when you hit innocents trying to get
that 1 terrorist like in Afghanistan (9 children, no terrorist) then we are
in the wrong! It's happening in Iraq as we write here!

Post by El Alumbrado
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[Bob Hatch]

Post by Guess Who?
I notice there's lots of "blood boiling", over the ghastly murder.
They've got several hostages now, including that soldier. I don't
think the terrorists are going to stop now. They learned how well it
worked, filming Russian soldiers in Afghanistan getting their throats
cut.
Planning a war, while in a state of rage, is a poor way to plan a
war. It's real easy to act stupid.

Worked pretty damn well after Pearl Harbor.

Stupidity, is how we got there

Post by Guess Who?
in the first place...

No it's not. I told you that you wouldn't understand. I don't think it
because you can't it's because you don't want to.

Post by Guess Who?
Why are we trying to fix their water, and electricity, if this is
what we get in return?

I told you that you wouldn't understand.

Post by Guess Who?
I don't think this is the time to go bombing everything, every place,
when we're already extending our forces, for 120 days. do you?
Posters here, are talking about expanding the war into other
countries.

Who, which countries.

That sort of stuff might raise gas up to $20 per gallon.

Post by Guess Who?
How do you think the rest of the world would view a nation who'd cause
that much trouble in the world?

What do they think of Iran, Syria, North Korea, China. All these have caused
more problems in the world than the US.

I told you that you wouldn't understand. You just keep proving it.

Post by Guess Who?
Didn't we get ourselves into this jam, by being the big shots, who
wouldn't wait for the rest of the world, to make war?

We asked France. They said no because of their financial position in Iraq.
We asked Germany. They said no because of their financial position in Iraq.
We asked Russia. They said no because of their financial position in Iraq.
Close to 30 other courtiers said yes because they had no financial position
in Iraq.

Please list below the countries that did not believe Iraq had WMD's prior to
the invasion of Iraq. I'll leave ample space between the end of this

Post by Guess Who?
Looks like the first thing to do, when you're in a hole is to stop
digging...
Don

Good idea Don. Put the shovel down.

Post by Guess Who?
PS
Bob Hatch
No, I don't "get it". Please explain what we're accomplishing in
Iraq, then tell me, if it's the same thing, Bush said we were
doing....

When you've read these books get back to me on the subject.

A National Party No More by Zell Miller
Allies by William Shawcross
Useful Idiots by Mona Charen
Bush Country by John Podhoretz
Bias by Bernard Goldberg
Deliver Us From Evil by Sean Hannity
What's so Great About America by Dinesh D'Souza

If you're not willing to do a little study yourself I'm not willing to
educate you.

[Guess Who?]

Like most folks, I'm revolted by the poor guy getting his head sawed
off. I expect more of the same in days to come...
What happens next? We can't get those responsible, so what do we
do?
Are we still trying to liberate the Iraqis from Saddam, or just kill
them all, and let God sort out the innocent from the guilty?
If we're going to just start killing people, then why are we getting
set to try the prison guards, while feeding Saddam Snicker bars?
Maybe someone can explain the reason we invaded Iraq, again? It
gets more muddled all the time..........
Don

[Bob Hatch]

"Guess Who?" <***@webtv.net> wrote in message news:15125-40A1446A-***@storefull-3136.bay.webtv.net
Maybe someone can explain the reason we invaded Iraq, again?

It gets more muddled all the time..........
Don

You haven't understood it yet so I doubt you would now. Not trying to insult
or be rude, it's just a fact.

[Alan Balmer]

On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:20:51 -0500, "El Alumbrado"

Post by El Alumbrado
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_2
OK, I'm finally there: "Death to those who oppose us!"
In the America I used to know, this would have been just about the worst
things these bastards could have done to promote their cause. I hope that we
as a people have not yet forgotten the definition of "Righteous Anger".
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

Not yet reported on either Al Jazerra or Al Arabia. Remains to be seen
whether this video will be distributed by the US media as widely as
the prison pictures.

[u***@ihatespamyahoo.com]

Post by Alan Balmer

Post by El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

Not yet reported on either Al Jazerra or Al Arabia. Remains to be seen
whether this video will be distributed by the US media as widely as
the prison pictures.

You certainly won't see this video on prime time TV anywhere that
isn't third world. But you can bet a large sum of money it will be on
www.ogrish.com It also had the Daniel Pearl (journalist) beheading a
while ago.

Warning, do not go to the above link unless you really want to see
absolute brutal killings, burn victims, maimings, etc. Mostly on the
war in Iraq.

[Rick J.]

Post by Alan Balmer
Not yet reported on either Al Jazerra or Al Arabia. Remains to be seen
whether this video will be distributed by the US media as widely as
the prison pictures.

As I recall, there was a recent bombing where several Iraqi children
riding by in a school bus were killed. Do you know if this gets
reported by the Arab media such as Al Jazerra and Al Arabia?


Rick J.

[Alan Balmer]

Post by Rick J.

Post by Alan Balmer
Not yet reported on either Al Jazerra or Al Arabia. Remains to be seen
whether this video will be distributed by the US media as widely as
the prison pictures.

As I recall, there was a recent bombing where several Iraqi children
riding by in a school bus were killed. Do you know if this gets
reported by the Arab media such as Al Jazerra and Al Arabia?

Of course, and it's blamed on the US, of course, no matter who did it.
One of today's stories is titles "UK troops kill Iraqi civilians."
They also give a great deal of coverage to the atrocities committed by
Israel. Incidentally, they also search for and regularly report things
like:
""We [US] were tricked into war with Iraq...can the Arab world
understand that many of us in America care about them and want to have
peace" by "Chris."

Wouldn't surprise me if they monitor this newsgroup.

[John D.]

Sure it gets reported, and then blamed on the Americans.

Can't win for losing.

JJohn D.

Post by Rick J.

Post by Alan Balmer
Not yet reported on either Al Jazerra or Al Arabia. Remains to be seen
whether this video will be distributed by the US media as widely as
the prison pictures.

As I recall, there was a recent bombing where several Iraqi children
riding by in a school bus were killed. Do you know if this gets
reported by the Arab media such as Al Jazerra and Al Arabia?
Rick J.

[Tom Shaw]

Men, I really dont hate to say this but when I first started working this ng
I said I knew what to do and that was to inaugurate a goddam scorched earth
program over there. IIRC I got flamed by some and supported by one or two
at the most. If I wait long enough, and we dont pull out of Iraq and leave
it to the UN and chaos, I bet I will be awarded the prophet of the year
award. When are we going to realize that you need to treat savages like
savages before you can start teaching them civilization because otherwise
they wont listen. That was true with the American Indians, some of the
Pacific Islanders, and certainly the goddam Mau mau and it is true with the
Muslims.
TS

Post by Alan Balmer
On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:20:51 -0500, "El Alumbrado"
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re

_mi_ea/iraq_2

Post by Alan Balmer

Post by El Alumbrado
OK, I'm finally there: "Death to those who oppose us!"
In the America I used to know, this would have been just about the worst
things these bastards could have done to promote their cause. I hope that we
as a people have not yet forgotten the definition of "Righteous Anger".
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

Not yet reported on either Al Jazerra or Al Arabia. Remains to be seen
whether this video will be distributed by the US media as widely as
the prison pictures.
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting

[DM_Callier]

Post by Tom Shaw
Men, I really dont hate to say this but when I first started working this ng
I said I knew what to do and that was to inaugurate a goddam scorched earth
program over there. IIRC I got flamed by some and supported by one or two
at the most. If I wait long enough, and we dont pull out of Iraq and leave
it to the UN and chaos, I bet I will be awarded the prophet of the year
award. When are we going to realize that you need to treat savages like
savages before you can start teaching them civilization because otherwise
they wont listen. That was true with the American Indians, some of the
Pacific Islanders, and certainly the goddam Mau mau and it is true with the
Muslims.

My Cherokee ancestors might differ with your viewpoint somewhat, Tom...I
think they felt they had a pretty nice civilization before some were
butchered and then the survivors displaced halfway across the country to
make room for white settlers.

Can you spell "bigot" and "idiot"? Betchoo can...

[Mark Jones]

Post by DM_Callier
My Cherokee ancestors might differ with your viewpoint somewhat, Tom...I
think they felt they had a pretty nice civilization

It was not a well developed civilization, but rather a tribal
and nomadic existence. Very different from what the world
traditional recognizes as a developed civilization.

This is not to say that they did not cherish their way of life,
but rather that it was not a developed civilization.

[Tom Shaw]

Well I'll be damned. They finally committed something outrageous enough to
stir some folks up. Unfortunately even that will not deter the pollyannas
and weepers and wailers over our horrible deeds in Iraq. I sometime wonder
if some Americans think we are having a goddam birthday party over there for
the neighborhood kids.
TS
"El Alumbrado" <el****@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c7rch9$115r$***@news.f.de.plusline.net...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_2

Post by El Alumbrado
OK, I'm finally there: "Death to those who oppose us!"
In the America I used to know, this would have been just about the worst
things these bastards could have done to promote their cause. I hope that we
as a people have not yet forgotten the definition of "Righteous Anger".
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[Dave Thompson]

Post by Tom Shaw
Well I'll be damned. They finally committed something outrageous enough

to

Post by Tom Shaw
stir some folks up. Unfortunately even that will not deter the pollyannas
and weepers and wailers over our horrible deeds in Iraq. I sometime wonder
if some Americans think we are having a goddam birthday party over there for
the neighborhood kids.
TS

There will be a difference to the Western, especially American press. What
has gone on in the Iraqi prison has brought a blanket indictment of the US
Military, current Administration and the USA in general. OTOH, the American
media will portray those animals as radicals driven to the wall only by our
actions.

You probably didn't even hear it here first.

--
Dave Thompson

[Mark Jones]

"El Alumbrado" <el****@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c7rch9$115r$***@news.f.de.plusline.net...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_2

Post by El Alumbrado
OK, I'm finally there: "Death to those who oppose us!"

After hearing about this on the news, it made the impression
on me that we should no longer show restraint of any kind towards
the people who we are at war with.

They see absolutely no need to abide by any rules of conduct,
while we try to avoid doing anything that might make them
upset with us.

I say that we show them what the consequences are to anyone
who publicly executes one of our citizens. It is time to quit
trying to appease these people.

[R & A]

"El Alumbrado" <el****@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c7rch9$115r$***@news.f.de.plusline.net...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_2

Post by El Alumbrado
OK, I'm finally there: "Death to those who oppose us!"
In the America I used to know, this would have been just about the worst
things these bastards could have done to promote their cause. I hope that we
as a people have not yet forgotten the definition of "Righteous Anger".
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

These pieces of filth have made this statement: "So we tell you that
the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not
redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us
but coffins after coffins ... slaughtered in this way."

That statement alone states a real good case for blowin' 'em away!
Dignity of their men and women? BS! They have none. Let's introduce 'em
to God and let Him sort 'em out.

[Mark-in-OR]

Post by El Alumbrado
In the America I used to know, this would have been just about the worst
things these bastards could have done to promote their cause. I hope that we
as a people have not yet forgotten the definition of "Righteous Anger".
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

My thought.. "one plane, one bomb, one city". If the radicals don't crawl back
into their caves, do it again. Just maybe if Iraq, Syria, the Afghan/Pakistan
border, Iran, Saudi, etc. began glowing in the dark, the terrorist supporting
countries might just get a clue.

Let's face it, we're up against a badass barbarian. They will stop at nothing
to succeed. Nothing. The Cole, the embassies, and the Twin Towers were
nothing, only the beginning of what I sense will be war of Biblical
proportions. Rationalization time, conciliation time, they are all past.

Mark - who thinks Al-Quaida just blew it with some incredibly bad PR for their
side.
.

[LewBob]

Post by Mark-in-OR
My thought.. "one plane, one bomb, one city". If the radicals don't crawl back
into their caves, do it again. Just maybe if Iraq, Syria, the

Afghan/Pakistan

Post by Mark-in-OR
border, Iran, Saudi, etc. began glowing in the dark, the terrorist supporting
countries might just get a clue.
Let's face it, we're up against a badass barbarian. They will stop at nothing
to succeed. Nothing. The Cole, the embassies, and the Twin Towers were
nothing, only the beginning of what I sense will be war of Biblical
proportions. Rationalization time, conciliation time, they are all past.
Mark - who thinks Al-Quaida just blew it with some incredibly bad PR for their
side.

Yeah, we got some aging nukes that just beg to be tested. Let's strap em
into the bellies of some B-52s and turn the Arab sands to glass. But, God
forbid, we make the oil radioactive.

LewBob

Lovin' bein' off topic!

[Alan Balmer]

Post by Mark-in-OR

Post by Mark-in-OR
My thought.. "one plane, one bomb, one city". If the radicals don't crawl

back

Post by Mark-in-OR
into their caves, do it again. Just maybe if Iraq, Syria, the

Afghan/Pakistan

Post by Mark-in-OR
border, Iran, Saudi, etc. began glowing in the dark, the terrorist

supporting

Post by Mark-in-OR
countries might just get a clue.
Let's face it, we're up against a badass barbarian. They will stop at

nothing

Post by Mark-in-OR
to succeed. Nothing. The Cole, the embassies, and the Twin Towers were
nothing, only the beginning of what I sense will be war of Biblical
proportions. Rationalization time, conciliation time, they are all past.
Mark - who thinks Al-Quaida just blew it with some incredibly bad PR for

their

Post by Mark-in-OR
side.

Yeah, we got some aging nukes that just beg to be tested. Let's strap em
into the bellies of some B-52s and turn the Arab sands to glass. But, God
forbid, we make the oil radioactive.

Not to worry - we don't need it and they won't need it any more. Of
course it might upset some of our European "friends" who were planning
to get rich from that oil.

[alpha]

They're just doing what DUHbya told them to do: "Bring it on"

El Alumbrado <el****@yahoo.com> wrote in article
<c7rch9$115r$***@news.f.de.plusline.net>...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_
mi_ea/iraq_2

Post by El Alumbrado
OK, I'm finally there: "Death to those who oppose us!"
In the America I used to know, this would have been just about the worst
things these bastards could have done to promote their cause. I hope that we
as a people have not yet forgotten the definition of "Righteous Anger".
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[Badlander]

"El Alumbrado" <el****@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c7rch9$115r$***@news.f.de.plusline.net...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_2

Post by El Alumbrado
OK, I'm finally there: "Death to those who oppose us!"
In the America I used to know, this would have been just about the worst
things these bastards could have done to promote their cause. I hope that we
as a people have not yet forgotten the definition of "Righteous Anger".
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

Interesting read! Righteous anger is often a mask for mere
self-righteousness.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/012/36.117.html

I'm not religeous, but I think most of you who are posting your revenge plot
here claim to be! I found these words and thought they sounded like you
might should read them! I think they came from a bible? So while your
plotting your revenge....

"The Lord. . hates the wicked and the one who loves violence" (Ps. 11:5),
and "The anger of man does not produce the righteousness that God requires"
(James 1:20).

"Do not envy a man of violence and do not choose any of his ways, for the
devious person is an abomination to the Lord, but the upright are in his
confidence" (Prov. 3:31-32)

[El Alumbrado]

Post by Badlander
Interesting read! Righteous anger is often a mask for mere
self-righteousness.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/012/36.117.html

Bad, old pal, I'm about as religious as a doorknob. I use the word
"righteous" in its literal form to mean "justified". Righteousness has
nothing to do with religion. We are righteous in wishing to see our enemies
destroyed. Any actions we take that prevents our enemies from destroying us
is righteous.

There is nothing vengeful in killing a scorpion. You're just trying to make
sure it doesn't sting anybody else.

El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[Jenny6833A]

Post by El Alumbrado
There is nothing vengeful in killing a scorpion. You're just trying to make
sure it doesn't sting anybody else.

El Alum now appears to be composing slogans in behalf of the Iraqi resistance.

:-)

Jenny

Before emailing, remove Clothes

[El Alumbrado]

Post by Jenny6833A

Post by El Alumbrado
There is nothing vengeful in killing a scorpion. You're just trying to make
sure it doesn't sting anybody else.

El Alum now appears to be composing slogans in behalf of the Iraqi resistance.

Eh? You're too clever for me, I missed your point entirely. Am I defending
the Iraqi resistance? Or defending our opposition to that resistance? Or
just wasting time between flights?

Hell, half the time I have no idea what I'm doing. Enlighten me.

El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum"

[canoli]

Post by Jenny6833A

Post by El Alumbrado
There is nothing vengeful in killing a scorpion. You're just trying to make
sure it doesn't sting anybody else.

El Alum now appears to be composing slogans in behalf of the Iraqi resistance.
:-)
Jenny
Before emailing, remove Clothes

You might consider re-draping yourself in textiles, Jenny, or slather
on a lot more sunscreen: overexposure to world events seems to have
warped your thinking process.

Canoli